US affiliates (was: Re: WMF office location and remodel)

List overview All Threads
Download

newer

older

Unsolicieted email from "wikimedia...

Re: [Wikimedia-l]...

Pine W

28 Jun 2015 28 Jun '15

3 a.m.

...

The WMF will become a truly global organization when a Wikimedia US chapter is founded ;-) Il 08/04/2015 06:58, Pine W ha scritto:

Hi Garfield, I'm asking this on Wikimedia-l because a number of Wikimedians have noted the expensiveness of the San Francisco area including its high cost of living for staff, employer competition for engineering talent, and associated high salaries for WMF employees. I see on http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/foundation/8/8a/RFP_for_Real_Estate_S… that WMF is considering relocating its offices when its current main office lease expires. Questions: What happens to the remodel expenses that WMF is paying for at its current location? If WMF vacates the premesis, will it be compensated for the remodel by the building owner? I hope that WMF is contemplating fully exiting the San Francisco market area in order to economize, get better value for our donors' funds, have less competition for talent, and lower costs of living for staff. Is this being considered? Thanks very much, Pine _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

Show replies by date

Ricordisamoa

28 Jun 28 Jun

3:26 a.m.

New subject: US affiliates (was: Re: WMF office location and remodel)

I know the confederated approach may surely make more sense for the local communities, but I think an established regional subject would help uproot the Foundation from a single country it relies too much on. Il 28/06/2015 05:00, Pine W ha scritto:

...

Hi Ricordisamoa, There are multiple chapters, user groups and thematic organizations that are active in the US and have a degree of separation from WMF. The US affiliates are cooperative with each other, and the affiliate leaders communicate with each other fairly frequently. May I ask what benefits you think would come from having a consolidated US chapter? We've talked about this casually among ourselves but so far we seem to be satisfied with a confederation of smaller affiliates instead of a single national affiliate. Thanks! Pine On Jun 27, 2015 7:20 PM, "Ricordisamoa" <ricordisamoa(a)openmailbox.org <mailto:ricordisamoa@openmailbox.org>> wrote: The WMF will become a truly global organization when a Wikimedia US chapter is founded ;-) Il 08/04/2015 06:58, Pine W ha scritto: Hi Garfield, I'm asking this on Wikimedia-l because a number of Wikimedians have noted the expensiveness of the San Francisco area including its high cost of living for staff, employer competition for engineering talent, and associated high salaries for WMF employees. I see on http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/foundation/8/8a/RFP_for_Real_Estate_S… that WMF is considering relocating its offices when its current main office lease expires. Questions: What happens to the remodel expenses that WMF is paying for at its current location? If WMF vacates the premesis, will it be compensated for the remodel by the building owner? I hope that WMF is contemplating fully exiting the San Francisco market area in order to economize, get better value for our donors' funds, have less competition for talent, and lower costs of living for staff. Is this being considered? Thanks very much, Pine _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org>?subject=unsubscribe> _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org>?subject=unsubscribe>

Risker

4:08 a.m.

Ironically, Ricordisamoa, the "decision" to not have a US chapter was made around 10 years ago at the strong urging of other chapters. The theory (as I understand it) was that the US was the home of the WMF itself, which in the view of the era, meant that the US didn't need the "protections" that came from a chapter; the WMF itself was perceived to speak for US Wikimedians. (Given the times, back when there were literally only enough employees to run the servers and sort of keep an eye on MediaWiki, this was perhaps an incorrect assessment.) Then US regions started to form chapters, first New York then DC; there are now a significant number of user groups. If there had been a US chapter formed back at that time, there would only be one US chapter; the rest would never be recognized at the chapter level. Instead, we now see the specter of what could come, since the US alone as a nation with a large number of Wikimedians does not have the opportunity for a single chapter: given a little bit more organization, and the ambition to do the paperwork to become a chapter, the US could have as many (or more) chapters than exist in all of Europe in a few years. One has to wonder if some other countries, especially those with a large number of Wikimedians or a massive geographic area, might wish they had gone with regional affiliates rather than a national one. Risker/Anne On 27 June 2015 at 23:26, Ricordisamoa <ricordisamoa(a)openmailbox.org> wrote:

...

?subject=unsubscribe>

_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org>?subject=unsubscribe>

Ricordisamoa

5:17 a.m.

New subject: US affiliates (was: Re: WMF office location and remodel)

I infer that you would have preferred a single US chapter from the start, wouldn't you? Il 28/06/2015 06:08, Risker ha scritto:

...

?subject=unsubscribe>

_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org>?subject=unsubscribe>

Risker

5:34 a.m.

Ricordisamoa, I have no preference either way. I live in a geographically enormous country (Canada), which has a national chapter - centered so far away from me that I'll never be in a position to participate in person at a regular meetup. In Canada's case, regional chapters might have been better, and I wonder about other geographically large countries where this would also be more workable. Risker On 28 June 2015 at 01:17, Ricordisamoa <ricordisamoa(a)openmailbox.org> wrote:

...

I infer that you would have preferred a single US chapter from the start, wouldn't you? Il 28/06/2015 06:08, Risker ha scritto:

communities, but I think an established regional subject would help uproot the Foundation from a single country it relies too much on. Il 28/06/2015 05:00, Pine W ha scritto: Hi Ricordisamoa,

There are multiple chapters, user groups and thematic organizations that are active in the US and have a degree of separation from WMF. The US affiliates are cooperative with each other, and the affiliate leaders communicate with each other fairly frequently. May I ask what benefits you think would come from having a consolidated US chapter? We've talked about this casually among ourselves but so far we seem to be satisfied with a confederation of smaller affiliates instead of a single national affiliate. Thanks! Pine On Jun 27, 2015 7:20 PM, "Ricordisamoa" <ricordisamoa(a)openmailbox.org <mailto:ricordisamoa@openmailbox.org>> wrote: The WMF will become a truly global organization when a Wikimedia US chapter is founded ;-) Il 08/04/2015 06:58, Pine W ha scritto: Hi Garfield, I'm asking this on Wikimedia-l because a number of Wikimedians have noted the expensiveness of the San Francisco area including its high cost of living for staff, employer competition for engineering talent, and associated high salaries for WMF employees. I see on http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/foundation/8/8a/RFP_for_Real_Estate_S… that WMF is considering relocating its offices when its current main office lease expires. Questions: What happens to the remodel expenses that WMF is paying for at its current location? If WMF vacates the premesis, will it be compensated for the remodel by the building owner? I hope that WMF is contemplating fully exiting the San Francisco market area in order to economize, get better value for our donors' funds, have less competition for talent, and lower costs of living for staff. Is this being considered? Thanks very much, Pine _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org > ?subject=unsubscribe> > _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org >?subject=unsubscribe> _______________________________________________

Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> _______________________________________________

Keegan Peterzell

6:07 a.m.

On Sun, Jun 28, 2015 at 12:34 AM, Risker <risker.wp(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

The United States is so big, and the population so propagated amongst its size, that a cohesive US chapter is pretty much impossible. Despite the size of our movement, it's still very small by regional breakdown and the economics of travel for support just don't match up. I've attended a few meetups in the US, and I had to travel significant distance to do so only to have a maximum turnout of a few dozen. That was a DC meetup in which I flew in from the southern US and met with Risker - coming from Canada - at the airport to attend a meetup that was 40 strong with half of the people not being from DC. And that took significant planning. Ultimately, a US chapter would fail not because of passion, but simple logistics. -- ~Keegan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Keegan This is my personal email address. Everything sent from this email address is in a personal capacity.

Gerard Meijssen

10:13 a.m.

Hoi, The United States is not singular in its size, its diversity, the number of people. Arguably India, Brazil and Russia compare. The one difference the USA has is its historic attention from the WMF in every aspect of its operations. Arguably, the WMF has performed many of what would be expected of a USA chapter without any of the administrative, democratic or other requirements that a chapter has. When the USA has its own WMF chapter, it is no longer an automatic given what the WMF may do in the USA and THAT would end much of the discrimination that is taking place. Thanks, GerardM On 28 June 2015 at 08:07, Keegan Peterzell <keegan.wiki(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

On Sun, Jun 28, 2015 at 12:34 AM, Risker <risker.wp(a)gmail.com> wrote:

at a

regular meetup. In Canada's case, regional chapters might have been

better,

and I wonder about other geographically large countries where this would also be more workable. Risker

Amir E. Aharoni

10:44 a.m.

...

The WMF will become a truly global organization when a Wikimedia US chapter is founded ;-)

W Not quite, but it would be an important step in that direction. Work on USA projects should be done by USA Wikimedia chapters and other USA organization, not by the Foundation. It used to be worse in the past - The example that I recall most easily is the Public Policy Initiative from 2010, which got American people to work on American topics. Though not a bad project as far as the created content goes, I felt discomfort about the fact that it's done by the Foundation which is supposed to be international. But that was five years ago. I cannot recall something like that is happening now. There are local American chapters now; it's good that they are local, and there should be more of them. Foundation is backing more international projects and usually gives the backing to organizations or individuals rather than doing everything by itself. It can get much more international, but a good process has already begun. -- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com ‪“We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬ 2015-06-28 6:00 GMT+03:00 Pine W <wiki.pine(a)gmail.com>om>:

...

The WMF will become a truly global organization when a Wikimedia US chapter is founded ;-) Il 08/04/2015 06:58, Pine W ha scritto: > Hi Garfield, > > I'm asking this on Wikimedia-l because a number of Wikimedians have

noted

> the expensiveness of the San Francisco area including its high cost of > living for staff, employer competition for engineering talent, and > associated high salaries for WMF employees. > > I see on > >

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/foundation/8/8a/RFP_for_Real_Estate_S…

> that WMF is considering relocating its offices when its current main > office > lease expires. > > Questions: > > What happens to the remodel expenses that WMF is paying for at its

current

> location? If WMF vacates the premesis, will it be compensated for the > remodel by the building owner? > > I hope that WMF is contemplating fully exiting the San Francisco market > area in order to economize, get better value for our donors' funds, have > less competition for talent, and lower costs of living for staff. Is

this

being considered? Thanks very much, Pine _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

Gerard Meijssen

4:09 p.m.

Hoi, Hear, hear !! Thanks, GerardM On 28 June 2015 at 12:44, Amir E. Aharoni <amir.aharoni(a)mail.huji.ac.il> wrote:

...

The WMF will become a truly global organization when a Wikimedia US chapter is founded ;-)

you

think would come from having a consolidated US chapter? We've talked

about

this casually among ourselves but so far we seem to be satisfied with a confederation of smaller affiliates instead of a single national

affiliate.

Thanks! Pine On Jun 27, 2015 7:20 PM, "Ricordisamoa" <ricordisamoa(a)openmailbox.org> wrote:

noted

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/foundation/8/8a/RFP_for_Real_Estate_S…

> that WMF is considering relocating its offices when its current main > office > lease expires. > > Questions: > > What happens to the remodel expenses that WMF is paying for at its

current >> location? If WMF vacates the premesis, will it be compensated for the >> remodel by the building owner? >> >> I hope that WMF is contemplating fully exiting the San Francisco

market

>> area in order to economize, get better value for our donors' funds,

have

> less competition for talent, and lower costs of living for staff. Is

this >> being considered? >> >> Thanks very much, >> >> Pine >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >> Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

3249

days inactive

3249

days old

wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org

Manage subscription

8 comments

6 participants

tags (0)

participants (6)

Amir E. Aharoni
Gerard Meijssen
Keegan Peterzell
Pine W
Ricordisamoa
Risker