Reply-To: References: <CAHRTtW_LoeHFcPb6vUmw7BwOqJECuvSR1-gqNWcC7kmZ=NFCHA(a)mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <CAHRTtW_LoeHFcPb6vUmw7BwOqJECuvSR1-gqNWcC7kmZ=NFCHA(a)mail.gmail.com> Thanks for the mention. It's good to know that someone, somewhere, reads what I write. But, just to clarify, let me stress I was being merely *descriptive* there, rather than *prescriptive*. The context was I had suggested that the Wikipedia _Signpost_ cover Larry Sanger's recent material. Someone replied mentioning the antiporn-feminist view (and opposing it). This originated from a gendergap list discussion, but I didn't know that at the time, and so I was confused about why Larry Sanger was being taken to be making those types of objections. Hence I replied: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/News… "I don't think Sanger is making any sort of (my gloss) "gender feminist" critique, but rather taking the standard (again, simplifying) "family values" type position. While someone involved in the topic might have such a view, and certainly there have been alliances of convenience, I don't see it as being a part of what he wrote in specific and what's he's attempting to do (except again as an alliance). He probably would object to the following characterization, but I'd say he's taking the older right-wing anti-porn stance, rather than the newer left-wing anti-porn stance." This was not meant as my endorsing both sides. It was more along the lines of Tom Lehrer's song "National Brotherhood Week": "Oh, the Protestants hate the Catholics And the Catholics hate the Protestants And the Hindus hate the Muslims And everybody hates the Jews" As in: "Oh, the Fundamentalists hate the Feminists And the Feminists hate the Fundamentalists And the Wingnuts hate the Moonbats And everybody hates the porn" There's many different issues which get lumped together. I do think Larry Sanger raises *some* valid points, and it bothers me immensely when he gets treated in the style of kill-the-apostate. But I don't agree with everything he says or tries to do, and I feel I need to repeatedly made that clear, since I get flack from some people who want to use me as an available scapegoat for their dislike of critics. Metaphorically, I've shed a lot of my blood in defense of civil-liberties on the Internet (my regret over how this harmed my life sometimes discomfits people). Anyway, these days, I don't feel any desire to argue ideological pornography theories (it's not going to matter here anyway). But I'm interested in how this all turns out in terms of the various factions at odds with each other. -- Seth Finkelstein Consulting Programmer http://sethf.com Infothought blog - http://sethf.com/infothought/blog/ Interview: http://sethf.com/essays/major/greplaw-interview.php