Sean and Dmcdevit, Two basic questions for you: 1): We have a problem with lack of ops right now. This is known and being worked on. I know Freenode discourages leaving auto-op on, but given the amount of vandalism that #wikipedia gets compared to other channels, (for instance, on my other network, the 4 or 5 50-60 person channels I co-own get spammed maybe once or twice every month), why don't we just leave auto-ops on? It will prevent questions of "Where are the ops", discourage spamming, and give the channel users a little more peace of mind that ops are actually there. I've never agreed with the "no auto-ops"philosophy: I know it's supposed to prevent it from becoming a status symbol, but people were still saying "give me ops!" before the rules change anyway, and personally I think people consider on-project admin status a bigger "status symbol". Summary: Why don't we just turn auto-op on? 2): There's obviously a LOT of criticism for these changes. Yes they were posted in topic. It's noted that for a lot of people, they don't check the topic. Or in my case, their client doesn't display the topic or chanserv messages. Since there are a lot of people dissatisfied with the change, have you considered backpedalling (even more than the relaxation of the off topic rules)? Or if you're not considering a complete reversal, some greater steps? Possibly.....turning auto-op on ;) ? -Dan Rosenthal On Jun 20, 2007, at 7:46 AM, foundation-l-request(a)lists.wikimedia.org wrote: