Dear
I think I have a great idea (yes, probably just like everyone posting here
:-)
Wiki and its wikipedia/wikitionnary and other projects proved excellent to
efficiently build free knowledge for everyone, by everyone cooperating
together.
I propose today to adapt wiki software (a few add-ons could do it) to create
a special wiki with the following main characteristics :
- Allow to build cooperative propositions
- Allow to vote on the propositions democratically
The fundamental difference it that this is therefore not to build knowlege
but to build and adopt decision proposals. The philosophy remains the same :
everyone with internet access can participate on a collaborative way, and
safeguards in case of vandalism.
This would be a nice vision for what could become the future of democracy.
More on this page : http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikicracy
Hope for your support or constructive criticism
Sincerely,
Vincent Mandrilly
_________________________________________________________________
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Hi there!
I was just back to Japan one and a half day ago, and saw most of what
I would like to say has been already said by other people, including
Anthere and Andrew. I completely second them, just I would like to add
my full of appreciation and applause for Hsiang-Tai Chien, the lead
coordinator of translations at this conference, not only his service
for setting website and other related materials, but his coordination
of Wikimania Awards. There would be something we would improve, but
considering our aggressive schedule and his private affairs which has
been unfortunately simultaneous with the conferences, I have nothing
but admiration.
I think coordinators and organizers who are not in Taiwan didn't bad
works, and feel honor to help it out to some extent, but difficulties
and hardship the local team should have conquered may be exceeded what
we could imagine - specially each member of the local team hides such
concerns behind their calmness, smiles and tranquility.
The wonderful tranquility and liveliness was found in the venue also.
The conference was going in a building situated in a small pond (I was
wondering if those ponds had been "the lake of sword", the venue name
Chien-tan literally meant), which are surrounded by woods with some
nice pavilions designed in the traditional Chinese way. And as said,
both of two lodging sites are only one minute walk from the conference
building. It was really convenient, and with the Open Space which was
available over the midnight, coziness of the venue was 24 hours
available. Behind the complex, there are hills on which Grand Hotel
commands the sight in a magnificent style following the Chinese
imperial palace, so the venue and lodging site as a whole looks like a
corner of the Hidden Palace. It is amazing how the venue was
discounted ... thank you for your all effort for getting local
support, Taiwan Team!
I would like also to introduce Japanese blogsphere coverage.
Koyama Fumihiko, President of Goga, Inc.
http://koyama.goga.co.jp/archives/20070804-1.html
> イベントを開くということは規模に応じて社会的責任が生じるということを再認識しました。Wikimania 2007はその点でもよい出来だと感じます。
(trans.) I recoginized again that it gives us a responsibility for
society to host an event, depending on its size. I feel Wikimania 2007
makes a good achievement in this point too.
Mitani Hiromi, Planner
http://blog.pasonatech.co.jp/mitani/104/4414.html
> 非常に充実した３日間でした。ひとつのサービスのビジョンに共感して、世界中から来た人たちと交流できるというのは、不思議な一体感があり、自然とその場で和むことができました。
Those three days I've felt fulfillment. Communications with people
from all the world in sympathy for a vision of service gives me a
miraculous harmony which makes me feel at home.
Fukuzawa Shun, (User:Yukichi99), Wikia
http://rblog-media.japan.cnet.com/mediaarts/2007/08/wikimania_2007_69c2.html
> スタッフには本当に頭が下がりました。今は彼らへの感謝と尊敬の気持ちで一杯です。
I deeply appreciate the organizer team. Now I'm completely filled with
gratitude and respect for them.
For all of achievement and cordial hospitality cannot be described
well, so I would like instead to quote a line from Confucius: in my
opinion, it is very fitting to Taiwan team and the venue they found:
知者動、仁者静。
Joyfullness and long lives be with you.
--
KIZU Naoko
Wikiquote: http://wikiquote.org
* habent enim emolumentum in labore suo *
A) Reply to Thomas Dalton
B) Reply to Milos Rancic
A) Reply to Thomas Dalton
quote : "I'm not sure those two characteristics work well together."
- Agree for the difficulty to combine both. But it is even worse when
decision making is not democratic or when democracy do not try to build a
consensus.
One solution could be to be able to take decisions (when it is needed to
solve a problem fast) while continuing (when possible) to search for a
better consensus if at the time of the decision many disapproved the choice
made by the majority.
quote : "the main problem is that you don't say what you intend this site to
make decisions about".It sounds like your are just proposing an online
debating society, which really isn't something the
Wikimedia Foundation would have anything to do with
- Indeed, I do not propose to make a political party, or a friendship
committee, or a wiki for general debate. If a wiki develop a nice tools that
features all the ideas I made, all these tools, all this development work
will never be helpful for the whole community.
Instead, I propose the development of add-ons to wiki that virtually any
group of people, small (little association) or big (country or all the
people connected to internet) could use.
Wikimedia software is exactly the same: imagine an association would have
developed a wiki for itself, and never planned to share it with the online
community we wouldnt have such a widely use of wikis today.
I dont know if this can be a Wikimedia project, but I believe the people
who created wiki will be interested to continue their formidable work and
help create this improved version of wiki. For me, it looks like a natural
evolution of the tool to apply it to more challenging applications: the
field of debate and decision making after successfully being applied to the
field of information.
- last note: (quote: [ ]is likely to end up with a large number of
propositions without definite borders between them) :
Yes, choosing one solution within a large diversity of possibilities has
always been delicate. But I prefer a choice between the best propositions,
than no choice. I have always seen the diversity of point of view as
richness, but with one condition: that it doesnt lead to conflict. And the
best way to avoid conflict is to provide guidelines. The wikicracy project,
(and it is the same with Wikipedia and other wiki) will be specifically
designed to provide such guidelines and give the best environment to ensure
most users will tend to have a constructive criticism, while preserving the
work from vandalism.
----------------------------------------------------
>I propose today to adapt wiki software (a few add-ons could do it) to
>create a special wiki with the following main characteristics :
>- Allow to build cooperative propositions
>- Allow to vote on the propositions democratically
I'm not sure those two characteristics work well together. Democracy can
only decide between a finite number of discrete choices. A co-operative
proposition building process is likely to end up with a large number of
propositions without definite borders between them.
Wikis are good for building consensus, not for managing a democracy.
That aside, the main problem is that you don't say what you intend this site
to make decisions about. It sounds like your are just proposing an online
debating society, which really isn't something the
Wikimedia Foundation would have anything to do with. By all means create
your own site along those lines, but it will never be a Wikimedia project.
----------------------------------------------------
B) Reply to Milos Rancic
- Any group may be interested to build such a tool. The actual state of the
proposal is just one sheet of paper, and I dont intend to present a one
page project to associations/cities/countries or whatever group. So if you
have a lot of ideas related to this issue, and if you got some free time to
want to waste with me, no need to wait the project has been formulated by
others, and feel free to participate.
- The ones that should be the most interested by this project are logically
the ones that have been interested by developing the wiki software at its
beginning.
- My problem finding municipalities is, for my part, that I live in China.
(Wikipedia has recently been unblocked by my Chinese provider, but not the
Chinese wikipages )
- I am not sure of the best name to select for this project; Id rather have
it becoming a common decision of the developing team. Besides I am not 100%
sure yet such a project doesnt exist.
----------------------------------------------------
When Jimmy was talking something about politics.wikia, I was thinking that
it was a platform for something like this idea. And I was disappointed when
I realized that it is just a one more Wikipedia fork one more specific field
(political parties).
I think that this is a good idea (of course, not for WM) if it has
connections with a "real world". MediaWiki (wiki in general, but MediaWiki
especially) is a good platform for articulating political
thoughts of communities (from small to huge; I am sure that with some
software improvements countries/states with around 20 millions of
inhabitants may work together on one MediaWiki).
So, my suggestions are:
- Buy domain wikicracy.org (or something which you like); it is something
like $10/year; try with godaddy.com, for example.
- Ask Wikia (http://www.wikia.com/) for hosting.
- Build a theoretical model.
- Find real communities (for example, some municipalities) which are willing
to switch to MW in their decision-making process.
When you make some initial steps (everything is quite easy except to find
some communities, so, let's say, when you have active contacts with at leas
one community which is willing to switch to MW) -- I am willing to join you
and to help. (I have a lot of ideas related to this issue.)
----------------------------------------------------
Sincerely,
Vincent Mandrilly
_________________________________________________________________
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http://eragon-heroic-fantasy.spaces.live.com/
Hi everyone,
while I understand that nobody is keen to get dragged into the
controversy over the "Siberian" Wikipedia[1] I still feel that some
sort of a solution should be envisaged, even if currently there is no
such body as a meta arbitration committee, that would have the formal
authority to handle this case.
The Siberian Wikipedia is composed in a non-notable constructed
language, which has absolutely no recognition by any relevant
authority. It is loosely based on historical contemporary Russian
dialects of Northern Russia and Siberia. Much of its content is
non-encyclopaedic, some has been considered highly offensive by many
Russians.
Notable cases, where action has been taken with regard to
non-encyclopaedic Wikipedias in conlangs or Wikipedias in non-notable
conlangs include the Klingon (thl) and Toki Pona (tokipona)
editions. Both have been eventually relocated to wikia, where their
authors have every freedom and opportunity to continue their projects
as they see fit.
Unless there are double-standards, the same solution should be applied
to the ru-sib Wikipedia.
Looking forward to your comments and opinions (if you have any),
Johannes
Footnotes:
[1] http://meta.wikimedia.org/Proposals_for_closing_projects/Closure_of_Siberia…
--
http://www.infoe.de/
Dear Gerard,
Indeed, this is a great comment : we shall add to the proposal a follow up
of decisions taken, (which could take the form of discussion page and/or an
evaluation/vote by the members regarding the action of the executive body
towards the issue.
I modify right away the presentation page to include this, and I'll think
about how to develop this idea. If you have already thought about it, your
are welcome to modify directly the wiki page.
This is becoming a exciting project, I think I will probably have to learn
programming in order to participate more than just on the ideas.
Thanks very much,
Vincent Mandrilly
----------------------------------
Hoi,
You describe the means and the mechanism but when a decision is made .. then
what ??? If it is not clear what the consequences are of decisions. There is
no point to making decision as there is no implied follow up; this is where
the proposal ends.
Thanks,
GerardM
-------------------------------------
On 8/10/07, Vincent Mandrilly <vmandrilly(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>Dear
>
>I think I have a great idea (yes, probably just like everyone posting here
>:-)
>
>Wiki and its wikipedia/wikitionnary and other projects proved excellent to
>efficiently build free knowledge for everyone, by everyone cooperating
>together.
>
>I propose today to adapt wiki software (a few add-ons could do it) to
>create
>a special wiki with the following main characteristics :
>- Allow to build cooperative propositions
>- Allow to vote on the propositions democratically
>
>The fundamental difference it that this is therefore not to build knowlege
>but to build and adopt decision proposals. The philosophy remains the same
>:
>everyone with internet access can participate on a collaborative way, and
>safeguards in case of vandalism.
>
>This would be a nice vision for what could become the future of democracy.
>
>More on this page : http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikicracy
>
>Hope for your support or constructive criticism
>
>Sincerely,
>
>
>Vincent Mandrilly
_________________________________________________________________
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I would like to say a huge thank-you to the Taipei team and organizers for
Wikimania 2007, which ended a few days ago. It was a fabulous conference and
you were incredible hosts. The venue and organization were all wonderful,
and the extra touches -- the banners leading to the venue, the Wikiball, the
free coffee, the t-shirts and tote bags for attendees, and much more -- made
it great. The conference was exciting and a pleasure to attend.
A special thanks to Theodoranian, the lead organizer; TzuChiang Liou, the
program manager; Daucter, Dann, Alice and all the registration staff;
Frances and KJ; James, the onsite volunteer coordinator, the rest of the
Taipei team, and the literally dozens of local volunteers who came to help
out. Thank you for your hospitality and for making the first Wikimania in
Asia a success. Thanks also to all the international volunteers who helped
with different aspects -- especially members of the program committee, the
scholarships committee, and the international sponsorships team. It was
great to work with all of you.
best,
phoebe
Whilst I was sleeping (still trying to recover :-)), several people sent
"thank yous" and I happen to agree with all of them. Andrew, Phoebe,
TzuChiang, I second you entirely.
If I dare list some of the things I loved more specifically, and which
help making it what I consider was a *great* wikimania.
Most of the attendees were really wikimedians. Not swarms of
journalists, nor curious visitors. There were many times I had this odd
feeling we were on meta, or on this list, just chatting or trolling,
simply face to face.
I liked the program a lot, because it was the right mix of talks from
wikimedians, and of talks from famous personalities in open and free
culture. Basically, there was always an interesting session to go to.
I'd suggest that in the future, we move even more towards "workshop" or
"panels" type of activity, so much more wikiculture.
Seconding Andrew, I think the central point was a little anthill where
we could always find others, someone to talk to, something to look at,
something to eat. Better put the lightning talks a little bit aside, but
a little crowdiness did wonders. It felt such a warm place.
The conference did not stop at 17h. Hosting was just a couple of minutes
away, was of very good quality, provided room to hang together and chat
till the end of the night. Again another opportunity to bond. There were
also many tourist trips done, joint foot massage, discovery of night
markets. We should probably work even further on the social events.
I think it was exactly of the right spirit we should aim to. A
conference for us, to meet and chat. I had a great time. Thanks a lot to
all the organizers !
Special note for those I particularly worked with, Theodonarian,
TzuChiang, Alice and Frances.
Ant
As we make our way back home from the hangover and euphoria of
Wikimania 2007, I can only imagine the exhaustion but sense of
accomplishment of the Wikimania conference team. Congratulations to
all the planners for showing us an amazing time.
But I wanted to specifically praise the superb job the Taiwan team
did. We should all thank them for their personal sacrifice of time and
energy for the Wikimedia cause.
It was a staggering achievement. The effort was an eye opener to those
new to Asia and to the growing communities in the region. This year
Wikimania transcended its role as a gathering of Wikimedia projects,
becoming the local event of the year for the free culture community in
Taiwan. Wikimania became a reason for Creative Commons and Debian
Linux to create parallel events, showing Wikimedia's influence
worldwide.
Wikimania had a passionate core team of local Wikimedians, dozens of
Taiwan-based free culture and technology veterans, and over 100
volunteers from the local college. Their commitment and attention to
detail started even before the first speech was given, as they had
volunteers greet attendees at the airport, just outside the gates of
immigration.
Thanks would not be complete without highlighting the exemplary work
of four individuals. They are not the only ones who worked hard, but
their commitment, organization and professionalism throughout the year
to plan this conference was stellar.
- Theodoranian, having been to every Wikimania conference so far, was
a leader with the passion to bring Wikimania to Asia. (ie. he is the
one crazy enough to try to do it in the first place.) He took "be
bold" to heart and we benefitted.
- KJ, always in control and with checklist in hand, led the way with
sponsorship, and seemed to anticipate things ahead of time. She was a
marvelous host and a consummate professional.
- Frances provided a smile and pleasant demeanor even when being a
traffic cop to the swarm of press inquiries.
- TCliou handled technical and programming crises with authority and
calm (even with the stress of his laptop going missing).
If only we could clone them to help plan every Wikimania.
The staff showed an agility to collaborate with many groups. I can
speak from my own direct experience. This year I redirected all my
involvement into the creation of a Wikimania Lounge. It was in the
works ever since Wikimania 2006. While the Harvard location that year
was top notch, it lacked a central gathering point for community to
meet and exchange ideas outside of conference sessions. It was a
concern many folks had -- Wikimedians were gathering, but were not
mixing.
So when I proposed the idea of the Lounge for 2007, the Taiwan staff
embraced it wholeheartedly by providing a space and sponsorship.
Specifications for the Lounge were rather demanding -- a large central
space at the venue; free flowing food, coffee and drinks; sofas for
lounging; seating and tables for laptops; a projector, computer
terminals and a learning area. A space was found and allocated.
Theodoranian even went out of his way to transfer sofas from his
workplace for the effort. TC provided volunteers on site to help with
logistical assistance. Honestly, I asked for more than what I thought
was reasonable, knowing full well even a partial fulfillment would
have been an improvement. The team met and exceeded those
expectations.
The selection of Taiwan for Wikimania 2007 was not without controversy
at the time. There were excellent proposals from many locales, and the
selection jury was surprised the bids had raised the standard so high.
Any of the final three would have been excellent choices for
Wikimania. Taiwan's selection certainly was in the sprit to "Be Bold".
If there were doubts whether Wikimania in Asia was a good idea, the
Taiwan team put those to rest. Wikimania 2007 allowed more
participants than ever from the Indian subcontinent, China, Hong Kong,
Taiwan, Indonesia, Japan and Australia, showing a commitment of
Wikimedia as a global effort.
Kudos to the Taiwan team for a spectacular job.
And just think, we get to do it all over again in 11 months and three weeks.
-Andrew (User:Fuzheado)
I had a look at
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/The_Simpsons
Can anybody from the foundation board explain to me why these bulk of
copyrighted quotes is "fair use"?
There is the general opinion at Wikiquote that the Exemption Doctrine
Policy (EDP) resp. the Licensing policy is referring only to image or
multi-media use. But browsing Wikiquote one has the impression that
the most part of Wikiquote can only be justified with "fair use".
Klaus Graf