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Subject:
Projekt GALILEO (Wikipedia with Geographical information)
From:
Jakob Voss <gmane-user(a)nichtich.de>
Date:
Thu, 22 Jul 2004 11:39:52 +0200
To:
foundation-l(a)wikipedia.org, wikide-l(a)wikipedia.org, vorstand(a)wikimedia.de
Hi,
As some of you already may have noticed there is the "First European
Idea Competition of the Satellite Navigation" called "GALILEO Masters
2004" [1]. Stefan Richter announced the idea to participate. Only
european companies are allowed so Wikimedia Germany or freiheit.com [2]
(the company where Stefan Richter works) would apply. Deadline is Friday
the 30th of this month. To participate you have to fill in a
questionaire [3] and you may add up to two images.
We already have most of the proposal and a discussion with collections
of ideas [4] - the latter mostly in German but the proposal is the most
important.
Missing tasks:
* We need the cooperation of Wikimedia Foundation and the community
* Who should participate (the competition is aimed to small companies so
maybe freiheit.com would be good choice for a cooperation)?
* Formulating the missing answers
* Perfecting all the answers
* Two images for demonstration purpose (I drew [5] but some fictious
screenshots may be more suasive)
* Summarizing and translating the discussion and the ideas (mainly for
us and later)
Everybody is invited to participate until next wendsday (deadline).
Please try to seperate discussion and proposals or summaries. We should
have a conclusive concept before starting to implement anything. I am
sure that we will have the most useful database of free annotated
geographical data in two years! There are applications most of the
normal internet or encyclopedia reader has not even dreamed of. Let's go
for it!
Jakob
[1] http://www.galileo-masters.com
[2] http://www.freiheit.com
[3] http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/GALILEO_Masters_2004/Questionaire
[4] http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:GALILEO_Masters_2004
[5] http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:GALILEOArchitecture.png
Hi,
As some of you already may have noticed there is the "First European
Idea Competition of the Satellite Navigation" called "GALILEO Masters
2004" [1]. Stefan Richter announced the idea to participate. Only
european companies are allowed so Wikimedia Germany or freiheit.com [2]
(the company where Stefan Richter works) would apply. Deadline is Friday
the 30th of this month. To participate you have to fill in a
questionaire [3] and you may add up to two images.
We already have most of the proposal and a discussion with collections
of ideas [4] - the latter mostly in German but the proposal is the most
important.
Missing tasks:
* We need the cooperation of Wikimedia Foundation and the community
* Who should participate (the competition is aimed to small companies so
maybe freiheit.com would be good choice for a cooperation)?
* Formulating the missing answers
* Perfecting all the answers
* Two images for demonstration purpose (I drew [5] but some fictious
screenshots may be more suasive)
* Summarizing and translating the discussion and the ideas (mainly for
us and later)
Everybody is invited to participate until next wendsday (deadline).
Please try to seperate discussion and proposals or summaries. We should
have a conclusive concept before starting to implement anything. I am
sure that we will have the most useful database of free annotated
geographical data in two years! There are applications most of the
normal internet or encyclopedia reader has not even dreamed of. Let's go
for it!
Jakob
[1] http://www.galileo-masters.com
[2] http://www.freiheit.com
[3] http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/GALILEO_Masters_2004/Questionaire
[4] http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:GALILEO_Masters_2004
[5] http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:GALILEOArchitecture.png
Daniel Mayer wrote:
> Meta in *particular* is there for multiproject and multilingual
> coordination. How is that coordination going to happen on separate
> wikis?
Ray Saintonge wrote:
> I too oppose balkanization of Meta and other projects. People would
> certainly feel more at ease working in their own language groups, but
> always at the risk of not seeing what others are doing. Once the
> languages are separated there would never be any incentive to get
them > back together again, even if the right software were developed.
Full ack. The German Wikimedia Association settled at meta and not at
de.wikipedia because we do not want to be seperated. We startet to write
short abstracts for german pages at meta. Naming problems can be solved.
For instance [[Merchandising]] could point to [[Merchandising (en)]] and
[[Merchandising (de)]]. What is missing is the possibility to change the
interface's language but not dividing the pages.
Jakob
Jimbo,
There are probably a dozen military bases in Germany, and the USPS can
be used by anyone who has access to getting on a base - that will be
your problem (military ID).
As far as Evian goes - they send it on a container ship. It only
takes about 10-15 days to reach the states =) You can do this with
DHL if you like, but it's still very expensive for the consumer. Last
year I sent a 68 pound monitor to myself from San Francisco and I
believe your quote of $500 was about right (i used USPS in the end).
I will be out of the country from August 13-21 for the Olympics so
keep that in mind. I may also be moving back to the states in
mid-September.
Brian
Anthere,
I am stationed in Naples, Italy on a US Navy base. I just ran over to
our post office (USPS) and here are the shipping options to a standard
address in Florida:
1) Maximum length + girth = 108 inches. Weight 70 pounds. If sent via
Space Available price will be $25.43
2) Maximum length + girth = 130 inches. Weight 70 pounds. If sent
normally $65.34 (this is considered oversize)
3) #2 + priority, $67.15
My base has a standard italian address available (we are connected to
the international airport here) for possible shipping from France to
here, so those prices would need to be checked (they SHOULD be minimal
as well). I am also willing to pick up the USPS shipping charges as
they are minimal (including insurance).
But, these servers could be huge =) Do you have the dimensions?
Brian
Hello!
I just have added a line to the CommonSettings.php (and deleted the
individual lines at InitialseSettings.php) allowing each wiki to
block logged in users.
Please note that whilst this feature is technically available, this
doesn't mean you necessarily have the right to use it, because there
might be policies on your wiki restricting this.
You can block a logged in user like you would block an IP, typing in an
username instead of an IP.
Sincerly yours,
Fire
Though it is not entirely fixed, here are some news of a hardware donation made to Wikimedia Foundation
-------------
An employee at HP in France has contacted us, offering us free hardware.
This is a no-strings-attached donation from a few friends at HP who want to support Wikipedia. They reserve the right to mention this donation.
The machines offered are:* One 4U 6 CPU Xeon 750 with 1GB of RAM* One 4 CPU Xeon 700 with 2GB of RAM* One 6U 8 CPU Xeon 900 with 16GB of RAM and 2 SCSI drive max (which might work as a web server box immediately)* 3 Celeron 600 1U with 20G/ide and 128M of memory.
There were a lot of discussion on irc these days about these servers
and many people got involved to determine what would be best doing.
First we decided to accept the offer :-) The 6 servers will be picked up 2 french contributors, Med and Cereal Killer on thursday.
There will be a small shipping cost from Grenoble (the city where the servers come from) to Paris, which will be taken by the WMF.
Med will install the Celerons. They will have a memory upgrade (the WMF will pay for this).
Yann has found us a hosting company ready to host the three squids for free, http://lost-oasis.fr/ :-)
The three bigger servers will be shipped from Paris to Florida. We are currently trying to find cheap shipping cost.
Any help/suggestion for *cheap* shipping is most welcome. We'd prefer a company with good credentials,
but there is no requirement in terms of shipping speed, so we might be able to find a good price.
Please, help us if you know a good shipping solution.
-----------
I will set a page on the future wikimediafoundation website (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WMF/Main Page) to begin listing corporations helping Wikimedia projects.
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
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On Saturday 24 July 2004, there will be a meeting in the #wikimedia
IRC channel (irc://irc.freenode.net/wikimedia) regarding the Wikimedia
Foundation website (http://wikimediafoundation.org). The meeting will
start at 21:00 UTC. All are welcome to attend. There is no requirement
to sign up for the meeting, but the Board do reserve the right to
remove anyone causing undue disruption.
A log of the meeting will be published on Meta on Sunday. Please see
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Foundation_website_meeting,_July_2004
for further details, including a draft agenda.
Angela.
Translation for french people
Erik propose de faire une collection de sous domaines
pour meta.
Il soutient que nous serons plus efficace dans notre
collaboration globale en b�n�ficiant d'un sous site
personnel, chacun restant d�sormais bien gentillement
dans son domaine perso. Les pages de d�cision et
r�gles communes pourront �tre traduites.
Anthere n'est pas d'accord et pr�f�rerait que le
language de l'interface puisse �tre choisi dans les
pr�f�rences, et un syst�me de navigation entre langues
mis au point.
Erik Moeller wrote:
> Anthere-
>
>>Meta is the only place where we can really meet, and
find information
>>that someone else left.
>
>
> Can you give me a single example where splitting
Meta by subdomain would
> do any harm in bringing people together? I would
like to move this
> discussion from the general, emotional "Don't split
us up!" to the
> specific, rational "This is where it would cause
problems" level. What
> recent policy discussion or vote would have been
harmed by this approach?
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Membership_fees and
related pages
A lot of it was the result of online discussions, more
by email, and more on meta. I cannot really figure
spreading the result of these on 150 subwikis, and I
cannot really figure following discussion about it on
150 subwikis either. A central place is the only
option.
A central place where everyone is allowed to give his
opinion.
> Let's take the "Stewards" discussion and vote as an
example. The whole
> discussion was mostly English as was the voting
page. If we used
> subdomains, we could have made it a requirement that
the page be
> translated into the main languages before we vote.
We could have
> aggregated the votes from the different language
Wikimedias so that each
> community could express their preferences in their
language. We could have
> translated important arguments from the discussion
in realtime (in the
> form of localized "pro" and "cons" lists, for
example).
We could have
Did we ?
> This is a lot better than having a single page with
the occasional piece
> of untranslated French or Japanese between a couple
of participants. In
> that case, the main part of the page is English -
excluding those who
> don't speak it - and some parts of the discussion
are not - excluding
> those who don't speak that language. It's a
lose-lose situation.
Spreading the discussion in 150 subwikis is the
lose-lose situation.
>>In my experience, it does bring people together,
provided that you
>>welcome the interaction.
>
>
> I can't interact with someone whose language I do
not speak, unless
> someone translates it for me. A Wikipedia-style
setup facilitates that.
No. You will not be able to interact with the others
in both cases, but in the current case, you will at
least see that they make effort to communicate. Or you
at least give them the opportunity to try. When they
are parked in a submetawiki, you will not even know
they tried to communicate.
>>Plus, there are japanese and chinese people
currently over there. We
>>have Tomos, Suisui, Britty etc...
>
>
> Exactly - the people on Meta are mostly the ones who
speak some amount of
> English. Someone who doesn't speak any English won't
even understand the
> user interface.
Correct.
Then what about fixing the interface so that we could
choose the interface language ? This would be the
win-win situation, not packing people in another
place.
We could also find a way to navigate between
languages.
>>This is what is happening on the multinlingual
mailing lists, because
>>each time someone DARE putting a word in a language
different than
>>english, he is severely told that "of course, he
could write in english,
>>because really, no one can understand him".
>
>
> First, I must remind you that my main objection in
the last debate on this
> matter was using a different language in order to
exclude others from a
> certain comment. This is a completely separate
issue, and I would have the
> same objection on Meta.
> Second, if you want to reach the *largest number* of
people, you should
> either use English or make sure that what you say
gets translated into
> English. That should be very obvious, no? It would
be helpful if you could
> acknowledge this simple point.
I acknowledge this point.
But this is not a valid argument to technically
separate people.
> This is about giving non-English projects a larger
voice instead of
> relying on multilingual people like you to act as
mouthpieces for those
> who don't speak English.
Ah, the mouthpiece is back :-)
You have not been much on meta and mediawiki these
days Erik. Or you would have seen that now two french
people are now part of the developers, and on meta,
people like Villy, Looxix, Yann just to cite a few,
are very regularly participating. And we definitly do
not always agree. They participate to wikimedia wide
issues by being on *common* mailing list, and *common
meta*. Park us on separate meta, and on separate
mailing list, our interaction with you all will stop.
It just make no sense to try to maintain most pages on
meta in 150 languages. What makes our force is to make
them together. It would be great that they are
translated, and I intend to have a french version of
the wikimediafoundation website the more I can.
However, there are just not enough people interested
to do the translation. This is a structural issue we
can not go against, however hard we try.
Just like there is a Wikipedia community for
> every language, there should be a Wikimedia
community for each. Once you
> have something like ja.wikimedia.org, the creation
of a Japanese Wikimedia
> chapter becomes more likely as well because people
will find it far easier
> to interact when there is no constant interference
by what is *effectively
> indistinguishable from random noise* to them. The
problem of creating
> project-wide policies is addressed through board
review and voting
> standards.
>
> It may be a good idea to put this issue to a
Wikimedia-wide vote if we
> fail to reach consensus.
>
> Regards,
>
> Erik
Ah voting !
Yes, sure.
Well, you are welcome :-)
But I would be happy that this vote is not a 3 days
sampling this time, but really a wikimedia-wide vote.
With say 1 month of discussion, translation of all
relevant argument in all major languages, and at least
2 week long vote.
My, this would really be a major decision for our
future as a global community. It deserves that.
__________________________________
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Erik Moeller wrote:
> Anthere-
>
>
>>The reason of wikimediafoundation site is to present a unified front to
>>outside. It should be clean, with no dispute, and it should be
>>consistent with the Foundation frame of mind. It should also contain a
>>whole bunch of data, which should not be modified too easily by anyone
>>(like financial issues).
>
>
> This can be done using rights management and page approval. Having a
> combined wiki helps in collaborating as a community on matters such as
> press releases and general news.
Right management do not exist, but I think they could be very useful here.
>>Now, I remember very well your CPOV proposition, which aimed at strongly
>>limiting access to meta, by requesting that people identify themselves
>>by real names to have the right for their edits to be claimed
>>trustworthy, when the edits of non real people were labelled "untrusted
>>or non representative of a so-called community point of view" by default.
>
>
> Wow. This is a gross misrepresentation of what I said. I am frankly
> flabbergasted. See:
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Community_point_of_view
>
> In the *discussion* I suggested that *personal essays which deviate from
> the CPOV* (such as our favorite troll pages) should be signed, and that
> unsigned pages could be refactored or removed. This was a compromise
> proposal towards you to not have to completely exclude such pages. Next
> time you "remember something very well", you may want to look it up first.
Tatata, we already fought enough on this Erik.
You wrote to me :
But if you want to write a paper or essay on a subject related to
Wikipedia, and do not want it to be edited into CPOV form, then you
should have the courage and conviction to stand for it with your real
name. Alternatively, put it on your user page. -Eloquence 13:28, 29 Apr
2004 (UTC)
Given the number of editors who accept to edit under their real name,
and given the risks associated with using our real name on the net,
***requesting*** from people to sign their comments and participation
with their real name in order to have those allowed in the main space is
just something bad.
We are allowed to write fabulous article under ip, why would not we be
allowed to write what we think of Wikipedia under the same procedure ?
I say, if we request from editors on meta to sign their participation
with their real name, then we'll cause dramatic drop down in collaboration.
>>This CPOV proposition will have to happen over my dead body :-)
>
>
> Fortunately, Wikimedia is democratically governed.
>
> Regards,
>
> Erik
Oh, yes, thank god, it is democratically governed :-)
------
Btw, how are the new projects building going on ?
ant
