From Joshua Brady: Excellent questions. : ) But which problem? SlimVirgin's in particular? Victims and potential victims of abuse and harassment in general? Or identity deception, which probably isn't a problem in this case but which some people seem to be worried about for some reason? To help SlimVirgin: * Stalkers and other abusers tend to go after the vulnerable, and part of vulnerability is social isolation. By being supportive, we reduce the chance that this particular case of stalking will become a violent one. And no, I'm not saying that Daniel Brandt et. al. are the violent type, in fact I do not believe they are, but the information which may or may not be true has been released to many. If it's true, all it takes is one nut to read that and hunt SlimVirgin down, and this could become much worse. By the time you know the danger you are in, it is often too late. You hear the sound of someone entering downstairs... door opening and closing... footsteps... and then the voice of the man you fear. You don't believe you could run out past him. There are no ladders to escape out the window. You could scream, but there's no one around to hear you... and even if there was, he's a friend of the neighbours. All of your friends are busy at this time of day, and you know the police won't be sympathetic... and even if they did come, they wouldn't come in time. Instead, you check to make sure the door is locked. It is, but you are afraid that won't be enough. There's no bolt. All the time you hear footsteps. He arrives, demands entry, starts proclaiming how hurt he feels. You tell him to go away. He starts picking the lock, all the time screaming about how hurtful your refusal to see him is... how he has a right to see you, touch you... how much he loves you. You try to barricade the door, but you aren't strong enough to move any of the heavy furniture. Eventually, he successfully picks the lock and knocks down the barricade. He blocks the doorway with his body, perhaps around 300lbs heavier than you. He continues his insane banter, even as you yell at him to go away. Adrenaline has been surging through you bloodstream for some time, making you more energetic, stronger. Perhaps you can fight your way past. You have no self defence training, but you manage to jam you knee into his groin. He bends over a bit, but remains firmly blocking the doorway... and in a moment he pushes you hard onto the floor, onto the toppled remains of your barricade, calling you a 'sick puppy'. Before you can get to your feet, he drags you onto the bed and pins you down there, only a bit of thin cloth between his groin and your chest. He keeps up his banter... how hurt he his... how cruel and evil you are... how much he loves you... and even starts to cry, all while keeping you pinned, all while you keep telling him to go away. Do not make me go on. * Providing SlimVirgin with what emotional support we can - letting her know she has friends - will hopefully make her feel better. Raising awareness of the damaging effects of abuse will hopefully help people to do this. * Cover up what we can, hoping that less people will see this... you never know which one of them might be the type to track her down in person. Discuss privately by e-mail to help people understand why their comments are removed. To help others victims... and especially potential victims. ('And ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.'): * If we help SlimVirgin, we teach others that they can and will get help, making others less vulnerable. In addition, tolerace of stalkers will only make it safe for them to stalk - the line needs to be drawn on this. * I already know SlimVirgin and Jayjg will disagree with this, but allow editing through Tor. IP addresses are not the only way to track someone down, but don't leave the window unlocked just because it's easier for someone to come in through the door. I trust the Checkusers, but there are ways to get someone's IP address without the cooperation of Checkusers... eavesdropping on the connection between you and Wikipaedia, watching for accidental non-logged-in edits. Some have complained that SlimVirgin left a trace - using Tor is one way to help avoid leaving a trace. * Be more liberal about oversighting things to protect people. The sooner something goes poof!, the less chance the wrong eyes will see it. And hey, even oversight isn't permanent - it can be undone. * Establish better relations with the operators of websites we might want to get things removed from. (This need not be inconsistent with not linking to their sites.) On that note, I'd like to give a public thank you to the moderators of the Wikipaedia Review for removing what information they have removed, and also for hiding parts of their forum from the Googlebot. As for the identity deception thing, although I am not sure why some people think it is relevant in this particular case: * The biologists are way ahead of you - try cross-referencing 'conventional signal' and 'assessment signal' on Google if you want more information... alternatively, you could skip what the biologists wrote and read 'Identity and Deception in the Virtual Community' by Judith S. Donath. http://smg.media.mit.edu/people/Judith/Identity/IdentityDeception.html Armed Blowfish On 02/08/07, Joshua Brady <somitho(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Guys/Gals/Others, > > This has turned into a free-for-all attack fest on SlimVirgin's > handling of things, and Jayjg's just being on the project. Let's try > to remember not to launch into personal attacks and remain calm, if > you seem like you are going to explode and can't take it anymore; > please back away from the computer, and do not post in the heat of > things. > > We have all established: > - SlimVirgin's handling could have been better/worse/should be > oversighted/should not have been oversighted/we need to hire ninjas to > settle this/her MI6 handler is ready to wage a nuclear war James Bond > style. > - Jayjg's time here has come to a close and he should give it up or go > into hiding. Let's all remember we can not by consensus or forcing it > down someones throat, make them leave the project. If and only if > Jayjg himself decides to leave, he will leave. Removal of bits or > asking him to give them up, only gets old. If you want to involuntarly > take tools away from someone, first get a consensus to even make that > possible, then put the specific user up for removal of tools. English > wikipedia does not have a method of doing this currently. > -Other people saying 'we' really mean to say 'I'. > - That online harassment can evolve into a real life danger, something > one person has already confirmed, and something I can attest to as > well. > - Trying to run between terminals at tokyo, with only 30 minutes to do > so, will undoubtly result in a missed flight and forced delay as you > are put on another flight. > > > -Josh > > On 8/2/07, Joshua Brady <somitho(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On 8/2/07, jayjg <jayjg99(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > On 8/2/07, Steve Summit <scs(a)eskimo.com> wrote: > > > > Jayjg wrote: > > > > > O.K. Explain exactly how *I* was involved in the "response to > > > > > discussion attempts on-wiki". As far as I can tell, my total > > > > > involvement consisted of overwriting one comment on SV's talk page. this amounts If all apparently _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l