Wikis in general, including MediaWiki in particular, are very poor for

Hi, On 5/23/07, Gallagher Mark George <m.g.gallagher(a)student.canberra.edu.au> wrote: That's the primary one, from my understanding, coupled with accountability. If an admin proposes that you be banned on AN, ANI, ArbCom, CSN, CMTV or who knows where on-Wiki, anyone can see it. Anyone can contribute in the discussion. If an admin makes a questionable or false point of why you should be blocked, it can be publically logged and scrutinized and refuted if need be. Just recently, we had two scenarios like this, in fact! 1) Jeff got blocked by Zsinj based on IRC 'consensus'. Not good. No on-wiki input. Private unlogged channel. Who was at fault? Zsinj. But if 4 people gave him bad info on his talk page, and he did this, they'd be on the hook to a degree now too. Since it's a private unsanctioned unlogged 3rd party channel, they're off the hook and get a free ride for instigating a major disruption of Wikipedia. 2) (note: not taking sides here, I don't care either way) Jayjg asked boldy for PalestineRemembered to be blocked for certain reasons. Others cried foul, saying no way. They said the evidence doesn't support blocking. He was semi blocked or probationed or something--it's a mess, I don't want to sort it all out. Now it's ArbCom. But every thing was on wiki, and logged, and tagged, and bagged. If Jay did something wrong, he's now potentially on the hook. This is a good thing, if he did something wrong. Ditto for PR, but by keeping it all above board, everyone is accountable. But the solution isn't to complain about off-wiki discussion, as you have I wouldn't say shrilly, just thoroughly. The solution is for those who engage in off-wiki discussion to ensure, if That's the problem; many are unable or unwilling to do. Public logging takes care of that and keeps us all honest. Regards, Joe http://www.joeszilagyi.com _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

David Mestel wrote: openness place OK, but you still need to make the arguments in a public place, where after discussion on IRC some of the more stupid elements can be eliminated. Agreement on IRC is not on-wiki agreement. The new people that become involved may have very different ideas. Ec _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l