On 2/7/07, Marc Riddell <michaeldavid86(a)comcast.net> wrote: IRC channel at: irc://chat.freenode.net:8001/wikipedia see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:IRC Of the various IRC channels used by wikipedians it is the one most likely to go off topic. -- geni

on 2/6/07 7:57 PM, geni at geniice(a)gmail.com wrote: I just took a good look at this; while it does stray into issues other than WP, it doesn't have the focus I'm speaking of. I'm talking about an actual Mailing List, set up like this one, where the primary purpose & focus is discussing sociocultural issues. Marc Riddell

On 2/6/07, Guettarda <guettarda(a)gmail.com> wrote: I second that. Last time I was in #wikipedia, I actually got chastised for trying to draw attention to something actually relevant to Wikipedia. Anyhow, I would be potentially interested in the proposed list. -Sage

on 2/7/07 4:35 AM, MacGyverMagic/Mgm at macgyvermagic(a)gmail.com wrote: They don't have to deteriorate into that; either the flamers control it or the serious participants do - you can decide. How about participating to learn - not to convince. Marc Riddell

Guettarda wrote: Good reason to avoid it! The problem with chat rooms is that they are geared toward people with short attention spans who think is one-line bites. The kind of thoughtful discussion that Marc envisions does not fit in that kind of environment. In some cases I prefer to wait a day or two to think about my answer before replying. Ec

on 2/8/07 5:46 AM, Ray Saintonge at saintonge(a)telus.net wrote: Exactly! I'd like to make my thoughts about my proposal as clear as I can. The sociocultural issues that would be discussed in this new Mailing List are ones that exist in the world at large, not within the Wikipedia Community. I haven't been participating in the WikiEN-L Mailing List all that long, but in the time that I have I've found the participants to be an interesting-, diverse- and eclectic-sounding group. Often times in the posts that I read a person will touch upon, or brush up against, an issue that has larger-world social or cultural connections, but back off very quickly saying the list isn't for that. And, they are right, it isn't. That's when it occurred to me: why not have a Mailing List where persons could express their feelings and beliefs about such larger social and cultural issues; compare and contrast their own beliefs and ideas with others; and perhaps learn something in the process. It would provide a forum to, perhaps most importantly, question those social and cultural ³absolutes² we take as gospel because ³that¹s the way it is², or (worse) that¹s the way it¹s always been². Chat room style formats very often consist of knee-jerk responses that represent beliefs and opinions learned strictly from other persons; rather than ones we ourselves have formulated after taking that input, chewing on it for a while, and coming up with ones that are truly our own. I admit this could, at times, attract persons who want just to argue for its own sake; push their own beliefs and agendas; and could (more likely, probably would) at times, turn into an unproductive shouting match. If these types of situations did occur, it would also give the other, more disciplined participants an opportunity to learn how to control such situations. I believe if the purpose and goal of the List is set to learn rather than to merely convince, something positive could come of it. Marc Riddell

Steve Bennett wrote: Flames about Parker Peter are a narrow sociocultural issue not a broad one. Ec

David Gerard wrote: Stop what? It is clear that Marc did not intend flames with his proposal; Steve merely established a useful demarcation. Ec