On Jun 25, 2007, at 2:22 PM, SonOfYoungwood(a)aol.com wrote: Notability isn't a helpful concept here. It's certainly not the most important thing about fiction articles, which is why [[WP:FICT]] pointing to a notability guideline is so egregious. Notability guidelines are inevitably messy, ugly attempts at bright line distinctions. Fiction articles badly need a lot of cleanup, but notability guidelines are not a helpful way of approaching this problem. Better would be to aggressively slash and re-stub articles that violate [[WP:WAF]]. I'd happily join in on an organized WAF purge, hitting fiction articles and eviscerating the in-universe stuff, replacing as needed with short out-of-universe stubs. And I've proposed (to varying levels of opposition) things like [[Template:FreeContentMeta]] as ways of encouraging better places to put out-of-universe material. But a notability guideline isn't helpful here. Better to aggressively begin fixing crappy fiction articles on clearly notable topics, instill an ethic of what a good fiction article is, and then start targeting the silly things. -Phil