not All excellent suggestions! Have these ideas been raised before? It seems these *could* go a long way to smoothing things out at AfD. Sangerising is one thing. I'm certainly not in favor of worshipping expertise, credentials, degrees, or elitism. But it's one thing to be anti-credentialist and anti-elitist, where you're throwing out the *requirement* that people have credentials to voice an opinion. It's quite another to *boast* about how ignorant you are on a subject, and still make decisions based on the ignorance you just declared. I don't consider being against *that* behaviour to be Sangerising. Put it this way: I guess I'm "elitist" in the sense that I'm willing (I hope) to listen to and possibly defer to people on subjects, when they know more about them or are better informed about them. Where I'd like to think I'm "anti-elitist" is that I don't hold formal credentials as the only way to establish expertise. There are many roads to Rome. If someone demonstrates, by repeated contributions, discussions, and comments, that they're knowledgeable and informed, then I will listen and tend to defer to them on that subject. I know I'm not perfect and I don't always hold to this in practice, but it's what I aim for. When someone openly boasts their ignorance on a particular subject, but still insists their voice should carry equal weight on that subject, it seems to me their not just being anti-credentialist, they're eschewing any kind of expertise at all, whether it's based on credentials or community reputation or individual worthiness. So, I don't see being *against* that kind of behaviour as being pro-credentialist or elitist. darin _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l(a)Wikipedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l