DW put this on my Talk page. Any comments? - Zoe Dear ZOE: I'm sure your intentions, along with the others, was quite sincere in coming up with a formula for the opening line of an article on someone. However, it is a totally and completely lousy presentation that is hard on the eyes and far too much for researchers to be asked to absdorb. In plain words, it turns people off and therefore Wikipedia's credibity. Please get over the obsession with Google, the heading doesn't gain users, only QUALITY does. I am putting an enormous amount of work into hundreds of articles that, based on this hoffific heading presentation is rendering them useless. For people with or without a brain larger than a flea, this is what they need when using an Encyclopedia for a biography or other such items: NAME: year dates, occupation. John Smith (1920-1990), Medical Scientist SPACE Born John William George Peabody Smith on July 5, 1920, he was etc. Make paragraphs short (See HarperCollins/Random House or amy other publisher about readability, interest span in the 21st Century etc. LAST LINE (always): John Smith died on December 1, 1990 and was interred in ????. If they were a great whatever, you might add one one to occupation. Then, in a new PARAGRAPH, the full date of birth. AND, I've never met anyone who said they were born in Tupelo, United States. So, do as I do and get the Province/Departement etc. for foreign countries. Too, nobody says they were born in Boston, New England, United States. So, a Region in France should be specified after the Departement or leave the region out. I don't want to see any more of my hard work changed. There is not one person on Wikipedia with any marketing expertise. Buy a few marketing books, use a little marketing common sense, and see how Wikipedia can succeed rather than articles on "getting new users." Build it right, accurate, and sufficiently detailed and interesting and they will come. ALSO, if idiots want to insert stubs or are too lazy to do research, LABEL the artice: ''Work in Progress". That way, a new user/viewer understands and doesn't click away thinking what a half-assed information site Wikipedia is. Because, when they do, they don'y come back (except to play and add the same useless bits of crap) and they don't tell others....DW --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now