On 4/11/07, David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote: No, you are the person using the words "let's you and him fight". Larry's comments ("have come to the view that it is also broken beyond repair") reflect a destructive and hostile attitude that have characterized his project from the very beginning. -- Peace & Love, Erik DISCLAIMER: This message does not represent an official position of the Wikimedia Foundation or its Board of Trustees. "An old, rigid civilization is reluctantly dying. Something new, open, free and exciting is waking up." -- Ming the Mechanic

On 4/11/07, David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote: How so? -- Peace & Love, Erik DISCLAIMER: This message does not represent an official position of the Wikimedia Foundation or its Board of Trustees. "An old, rigid civilization is reluctantly dying. Something new, open, free and exciting is waking up." -- Ming the Mechanic

On 4/11/07, David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote: How is an open, continuing debate about a variety of issues an indication of "governance broken beyond repair"? Inflammatory comments like this are unhelpful. -- Peace & Love, Erik DISCLAIMER: This message does not represent an official position of the Wikimedia Foundation or its Board of Trustees. "An old, rigid civilization is reluctantly dying. Something new, open, free and exciting is waking up." -- Ming the Mechanic

On 4/11/07, Jeff Raymond <jeff.raymond(a)internationalhouseofbacon.com> wrote: Leadership? What leadership? Kelly

(back to the original topic...) Very good. The Education Secretary says it's good? In all a positive piece, and Natasha and George seemed amused by their photo on [[BBC Six o' clock News]], but they were also amused at someone smashing a £45,000 piano...! On 11/04/07, Kelly Martin <kelly.lynn.martin(a)gmail.com> wrote: -- Gary Kirk

On 11/04/07, Martin Peeks <martinp23(a)googlemail.com> wrote: When he told me he was going to do that, I looked pained and asked him please not to do that. "It's like deliberately spraying graffiti on a bus stop because you've heard the locals are good at cleaning it up." He looked embarrassed and said he'd clean up after himself ... - d.

If you missed it: http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_5260000/newsid_5261200/5261222.stm?… should work (if you're quick...well, before tomorrow's Six o'clock News I assume. Probably only works in the UK though? On 11/04/07, Martin Peeks <martinp23(a)googlemail.com> wrote: -- Gary Kirk

On 4/11/07, Gary Kirk <gary.kirk(a)gmail.com> wrote: Works fine in Switzerland, so I guess it works everywhere... (no, this is not bias) Michael

on 4/11/07 12:28 PM, Erik Moeller at erik(a)wikimedia.org wrote: I don't believe it's beyond repair, but can you honestly say that among these "variety of issues" there has not been some serious concerns about the state of leadership in WP? And as far as "inflammatory remarks" not being helpful: sometimes it takes a flame to generate the heat to produce the power to get something moving. I believe there is also some kind of saying involving standing the heat and something about kitchensŠ ;-) Marc Riddell

George Herbert wrote: Whatever might be said about the honesty of Essjay's self-representation, not much has been said to challenge the scholastic validity of his information. Ec

Christiano Moreschi wrote: What does fairness have to do with it. Your comment essentially substantiate what I said about Essjay. If Larry wants to draw unwarranted inferences from what he sees happening on Wikipedia there is nothing unfair about pointing that out. Ec

Well, I did find that the Times was taking the phrase 'While Wikipedia is still quite useful and an amazing phenomenon, I have come to the view that it is also broken beyond repair.' - which is a direct quotation from LMS, and coming to the following stronger conclusion: 'But Larry Sanger, who helped to found Wikipedia in 2001, said that the site was "broken beyond repair" and no longer reliable.' - in which only "broken beyond repair" was from LMS, the 'no longer reliable' bit being an interpolation from the words "still quite useful" and "I have come to the view". However, the phrase 'no longer reliable' used by the Times itself, is given first, and the full context only later, making it possible for the casual reader to presume that LMS had intimated that there was some some mythical past when wikipedia *was* reliable, but has lately fallen from that grace, which is not a conclusion supportable from the context. So, quite separate from whatever animus LMS might or might not have towards WP, The Times definitely was trying to milk the controversy. On 4/11/07, Erik Moeller <erik(a)wikimedia.org> wrote: -- -- Jussi-Ville Heiskanen, ~ [[User:Cimon Avaro]]