Ray Saintonge wrote
> Private payments in support of private interests are less dangerous than
> direct subsidies from Wikimedia.
Or not.
>We know they are outsiders.
How?
>Direct
> payment can too easily suggest that the payee has the WMF stamp of
> approval, or somehow states the "official" POV for his selected topics.
Sorry, that's paranoid stuff. Why would the Board hypothetically spend money to undermine NPOV? Since when has the WMF had an official POV? Why would this sort of thing, which would have to appear transparently in budgets, be _worse_ than political, religious or corporate groups paying people to edit, deniably?
I'm against the concept of paid editors, but basically because support for the sites in other ways should have priority.
Charles
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Example Two: Same Old Stuff
Ellen Schrecker article now reads,
"John Earl Haynes charged that "Schrecker… devotes hundreds of pages
to demonizing opposition to communism in any form." Schrecker argues
that her position is that "in this country[,] McCarthyism did more
damage to the constitution than the American Communist party ever
did."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellen_W._Schrecker
Hence Wikipedia is used as a soapbox to defame Prof. John Earl Haynes
of the Library of Congress as an appologist for McCarthyism by
equating McCarthyism with "opposition to communism in any form". This
method of allowing "criticsim of critics" for NOPV was raised at
Talk:Chip Berlet while the page was protected from editing an
unsubstaniated defamatory charge against Mr. Laird Wilcox as "an
unethical reporter". I asked,
"...is this the normal format in Wiki articles were "Criticism" subhead
have been created for NPOV, where than the critics are then
smeared..."
A neutral editor proposed "criticism of the criticism...should be pruned out."
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Chip_Berlet&diff=prev&oldid=…
I of course was charged with personal attacks and this group of
editors continues to push POV under license as a result of the
evidence now admitted to have been errantlly disallowed in my case.
Nobs01
On 11/23/06, geni <geniice(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On 11/23/06, Stephen Bain <stephen.bain(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 11/23/06, Bogdan Giusca <liste(a)dapyx.com> wrote:
> > > What should we do with the screenshots taken from Google Earth?
> > > I see that more and more of them are uploaded on en.wiki, for example
> > > to illustrate things such as high-schools or cities. But, does the
> > > fair-use claim hold up?
> >
> > Delete them all. Unless they're used in [[Google Earth]] to
> > demonstrate how the program looks, there's simply no valid reason to
> > include them when:
> >
> > a) free alternatives are almost always available via WorldWind
> > (especially for the US)
>
> For the UK there is a datated but free high quality alternative for
> anyone who is prepared to do a search through the national monuments
> record archive.
>
> --
> geni
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l(a)Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>
suggestion: Why don't we push for creating
[[Category:Google maps images]]
as a subcategory of Fair use images
if we get average joe user tagging images with such category it's
going to be easier for us reviewing themn and deleting when
appropiated
Begin forwarded message:
> From: Fred Bauder <fredbaud(a)waterwiki.info>
> Date: November 27, 2006 3:44:17 PM MST
> To: "Rob Smith" <nobs03(a)gmail.com>
> Cc: Fred Bauder <fredbaud(a)waterwiki.info>
> Subject: Re: [Arbcom-l] Fwd: simple example
>
>
> On Nov 27, 2006, at 3:35 PM, Rob Smith wrote:
>
>> On 11/25/06, Fred Bauder <fredbaud(a)waterwiki.info> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Kiko is still alive. What is this innocent person, who is leading an
>>> ordinary life, doing on Wikipedia with false information about him?
>>>
>>> Fred
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Wow Fred. Another extraordinary coincidence in this case (I count
>> about four now). Turns out Kiko's papers are closer to where I've
>> been sitting and working the past few years than the bathroom I use.
>>
>> http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:E2qQtWlea6gJ:libxml.unm.edu/
>> rmoa/content/nmu/finished/nmu1mss640bc.html+Francisco+E.+Mart%C3%
>> ADnez+Defense+Committee+(FEMDC),&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=3
>>
>> Looks like I unwittingly may have become another unathorized
>> biographer of another activist.
>>
>> Now we see it wasn't past associations with Chip Berlet, or the NLG,
>> why your transformed a Content Dispute into something it was not. It
>> was a close and apparantly longtime personal friendship with
>> Fransisco
>> I. Martinez.
>>
>> Nobs01
>>
>
> Interesting. "After he was exonerated, Martinez was reinstated to
> the bar. He continues to live and practice law in Alamosa,
> Colorado, where he remains involved in community and social
> activism." We are on speaking terms, but "longtime personal
> friendship" would be a gross exaggeration.
>
> Fred
>
>
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Rob Smith <nobs03(a)gmail.com>
Date: Nov 25, 2006 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: [Arbcom-l] Fwd: simple example
To: nobs03(a)gmail.com
On 11/20/06, Dmcdevit <dmcdevit(a)cox.net> wrote:
> There may have been some earlier discussion I can't see
Discussion during proposed rewrite of Wikipedia:Verifiability reveals
some of the process abuses (I would encourage reviewing the entire
subsection "Query").
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Verifiability&diff…
Mr. Bauder comments that the ArbCom case was essentially a content dispute,
"Ok, here's the problem. You put stuff on there about Kiko Martinez;
what does Chip Berlet have to do with Kiko Martinez? Fred Bauder
20:59, 16 November 2005 (UTC)"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nobs01#Talk:Chip_Berlet
and in in the 2005 Candidate Questions Mr. Bauder again refers to a
content dispute,
"...He lists one man as having been convicted of a crime and being
dead when I sometimes chat with the same man at our local library."
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee_E…
my rejoinder,
"So I have a published source that says Kiko Martinez blew himself up
in 1970; [[User:Fred Bauder|Fred Bauder]] says he sometimes chat's
"with the same man at our local library", my inclusion is valid as
[[WP:V]], whereas Fred's is uncitable. [[User:Nobs01|nobs]] 21:48, 6
December 2005 (UTC)
"uncitable", i.e. Original Research.
See also for a fuller exposition.
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee_E…
In Summary, the Plaintiffs pursuit of Dispute Resolution lacked merit,
had numerous conflicts of interest and outright policy violations that
brought the matter to Arbitration. Once in Arbitration, Defendants
Evidence was either disallowed or totally ignored. Ultimately,
Defendant in stupidity and frustration made "personal attacks" on his
own User Page. Defendants arguement then -- and now -- is that there
was never any basis for pursuing Dispute Resolution. And Mr. Bauder
now admits, denying me a right to defend myself "was in error".
The question now is, is it reversible error. I've served my time,
carry no grudges, and only seek some modification to the language,
"The ban may be renewed for additional years by any 3 administrators
after its expiration should personal attacks of the virulence found in
this case continue" given the admitted errors.
Thank you.
Nobs01
A friend of mine has a 1980 set of Encyclopedia Britannica he's trying
to get rid of. They're not going to be public domain in many of our
lifetimes and the information will be out of date enough to be
misleading in many ways - they would not be appropriate for a school.
I see there's another 1980 EB on eBay right now that's had no bids.
Nobody Cares (tm).
Your suggestions are welcomed ...
- d.
"Jim Schuler" wrote
> I'll play with it, if you don't mind.
Do you think you could possibly not do this, i.e. top post something glib or me-tooish? It's poor list etiquette, and this was supposed to be the sensible thread.
Charles
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"George Herbert" wrote
> On 11/27/06, Guy Chapman aka JzG <guy.chapman(a)spamcop.net> wrote:
>
> > The profile of Wikipedia is now such that we have a significant number
> > of aggressively tendentious editors. These go well beyond the
> > occasional "characters" like SPUI and cause massive wasted time and
> > effort.
> Having them is just an indicator of the scope of Wikipedia; if you look back
> at all the prior Internet interactive projects of note, they have all
> attracted malcontents of various sorts over time. Success attracts them.
>
> The question is what is done about it. The best solution I saw was benign
> dictatorships where someone in power just booted troublemakers, and was
> trusted by the rest to not boot good guys, and where social pressure
> functioned and kept good guys having really bad days from becoming
> troublemakers requiring the boot.
>From where I sit, the issue is not about having some different kind of constitution. It's about whether you have the 'police' or the 'judiciary' on top.
It is clear that people in the past have wanted judicial solutions. Problem users get their day (month) in court.
The current system of Arbitration doesn't go looking for 'aggressively tendentious editors'. It waits for cases to be brought. We hear quite a lot currently about possible vigilantism, by those without the time or the patience or the faith in the system of Arbitration to bring the cases it would need.
I actually doubt we have proportionately more of the really disruptive editors than in the past. That doesn't mean that there aren't the annoying characters. Some of the most tiresome definitely have been removed or have left or have been domesticated in 2006.
I think people should not be facile about this. Putting a problem editor out of circulation is worth the trouble of submitting evidence in a case. That's basic civics: be public spirited enough to go through the process.
Charles
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> From: "David Gerard" <dgerard(a)gmail.com>
>
> So ... written any good articles lately?
No, but I've really _enjoyed_ making a stab at "Free lunch," http://
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_lunch , and expanding "Raines law," http://
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raines_law .
For me, probably the most enjoyable thing about WIkipedia is the
discovery of self-assigned research projects on topics I'm curious
about and know absolutely nothing about.
Having read old novels, I was vaguely aware of the institution known
as the "free lunch." I still haven't got the whole picture, but
obviously it went out with prohibition and I _believe_ it never came
back, presumably since after prohibition there was no need whatsoever
to promote saloons, and probably because depression economics didn't
make it feasible for saloon keepers. I don't have a clear picture of
its rise and fall, or its regional aspects. I kind of have the idea
the saloon's "free lunch" was universal in big cities but not in
small towns. But I'm sure it was strongly influenced by local
regulations regarding alcohol licensing.
(It's always annoyed me that people that quote "There ain't no such
thing as a free lunch" don't understand that it is a specific
reference to the "free lunches" offered by saloons).
The fascinating thing about "Raines law" and "Raines law hotel" is
that they are such totally _unfamiliar_ phrases, although when I
started poking into "free lunch" I found dozens of references to
them... in New York State it seems to have been conspicuous and
disliked a law, and as much of a topic of public discourse, as
prohibition itself was later.
"The Cunctator" wrote
> I think it's bad business to get in the habit of setting up official
> policies that exclude factual, referenced, neutral information from
> inclusion in Wikipedia.
I agree, but I don't see the sequitur from what I wrote.
Charles
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