Hi James, Interesting question, this one. There's no easy way to link, eg, "France" and "French people". We have a property for "category of associated people" (P1792), so: France [P1792] Category:French people; & in turn that has a "category's main topic": Category:French people [P301] French people - but this is very convoluted! I wonder if this might be something looking for a suitable new property - "inhabited by"? "associated nationality"?. Alternatively, we could use P17, "country", on the item for the population group - this is a bit generic, but it would work. Andrew. On 13 January 2016 at 18:58, <james(a)j1w.xyz> wrote: -- - Andrew Gray andrew.gray(a)dunelm.org.uk _______________________________________________ Wikidata mailing list Wikidata(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata

"Culture" seems a good idea. I was considering whether "associated peoples" might be better than "inhabited by" - with a constraint to make it clear that values had to be an instance of a nationality, ethnic group, population, etc., rather than individuals. It seems to overlap a bit with "culture". This would let us have "countries" like: * Aztec empire : associated peoples : Mexica (and others) * France : associated peoples : French people but also could be used for both historic & contemporary cultural concepts/objects/sites/etc: * Armenian dance : associated peoples : Armenian people * Sutton Hoo : associated peoples : Anglo-Saxons * Highland dress : associated peoples : Scottish people Unlike the culture idea, it wouldn't be implicitly "dominant culture". This may or many not be a good thing :-) Andrew. On 14 January 2016 at 10:48, Lawrence Troup <lawrencetroup(a)gmail.com> wrote: [Q3307681] extend https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/Creative_work#cult… wrote: found -- - Andrew Gray andrew.gray(a)dunelm.org.uk _______________________________________________ Wikidata mailing list Wikidata(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata

Thanks for your responses, Andrew and Lawrence. What are thoughts about a new property (e.g. "ruled by" or "governed by") that expresses this sentiment? Please advise, James Weaver On Thu, Jan 14, 2016, at 05:48 AM, Lawrence Troup wrote: Hi James, This is quite similar to my proposal for a "culture" property [1], which would be used e.g. for Tenochtitlan [Q13695] has "culture" Mexica [Q3307681] (and probably also has culture Aztec [Q12542]). You could potentially extend the usage of this attribute so that you could have the "culture" of the Aztec Empire set to Mexica. I agree with Andrew that "inhabited by" is a property that needs adding - though in this case, it wouldn't indicate that Mexica were rulers of the Aztec Empire, just that they lived in it. Thanks, Lawrence [1] "culture" property proposal: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/Creative_work#cult… On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 at 09:49 Andrew Gray <andrew.gray(a)dunelm.org.uk> wrote: Hi James, Interesting question, this one. There's no easy way to link, eg, "France" and "French people". We have a property for "category of associated people" (P1792), so: France [P1792] Category:French people; & in turn that has a "category's main topic": Category:French people [P301] French people - but this is very convoluted! I wonder if this might be something looking for a suitable new property - "inhabited by"? "associated nationality"?. Alternatively, we could use P17, "country", on the item for the population group - this is a bit generic, but it would work. Andrew. On 13 January 2016 at 18:58, <james(a)j1w.xyz> wrote:

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Hi James, Andrew, I've now created a proposal for an 'associated people' property [1]. If you're happy with this proposal, can add support for it? Or provide any comments on it. Thanks, Lawrence [1] https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/Generic#associated… On Fri, 15 Jan 2016 at 14:53 Lawrence Troup <lawrencetroup(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi James, > > I think the problem with 'ruled by' is that it could be confused with > 'head of state', which is used for the reverse relationship when the > referring to an individual leader (rather than a ruling people). > > I think the correct approach here would be to get the 'associated > people' property defined, allowing multiple peoples to be associated > with e.g. the Aztec Empire. Then when the people are the rulers of > the society, have an 'instance of' qualifier on that particular > people. > > To give the full example: Aztec Empire [Q12542] : 'associated people' > = Mexica [Q3307681] with Qualifier 'instance of' Ruling Party > [Q1346215]. > > I'm not certain that Q1346215 is the most appropriate item to use > here, but hopefully you get the idea. > > Thanks, Lawrence > > On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 at 13:38 <james(a)j1w.xyz> wrote: >> __ >> Thanks for your responses, Andrew and Lawrence.  What are thoughts >> about a new property (e.g. "ruled by" or "governed by") that >> expresses this sentiment? >> >> Please advise, James Weaver >> >> >> On Thu, Jan 14, 2016, at 05:48 AM, Lawrence Troup wrote: >>> Hi James, >>> >>> This is quite similar to my proposal for a "culture" property [1], >>> which would be used e.g. for Tenochtitlan [Q13695] has "culture" >>> Mexica [Q3307681] (and probably also has culture Aztec [Q12542]). >>> You could potentially extend the usage of this attribute so that >>> you could have the "culture" of the Aztec Empire set to Mexica. >>> >>> I agree with Andrew that "inhabited by" is a property that needs >>> adding - though in this case, it wouldn't  indicate that Mexica >>> were rulers of the Aztec Empire, just that they lived in it. >>> >>> Thanks, Lawrence >>> >>> [1] "culture" property proposal: >>> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/Creative_work#cult… >>> >>> On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 at 09:49 Andrew Gray >>> <andrew.gray(a)dunelm.org.uk> wrote: >>>> Hi James, >>>> >>>> Interesting question, this one. There's no easy way to link, eg, >>>> "France" and "French people". >>>> >>>> We have a property for "category of associated people" (P1792), >>>> so: France [P1792] Category:French people; & in turn that has a >>>> "category's main topic": Category:French people [P301] French >>>> people - but this is very convoluted! >>>> >>>> I wonder if this might be something looking for a suitable new >>>> property - "inhabited by"? "associated nationality"?. >>>> Alternatively, we could use P17, "country", on the item for the >>>> population group - this is a bit generic, but it would work. >>>> >>>> Andrew. >>>> >>>> On 13 January 2016 at 18:58,  <james(a)j1w.xyz> wrote: >>>> > I want to add relationships between Mexica :Q3307681and > >>>> >>>> > :Q794210 [1] where Mexicas were an indigenous people of the >>>> > Valley of Mexico, known today as the rulers of the Aztec empire. >>>> > I haven't found any properties that seem appropriate to me so >>>> > I'd like to get your insight before adding any.  What properties >>>> > would be most appropriate? >>>> > >>>> > [1] ConceptMap link: http://bit.ly/1RMVgsD >>>> > >>>> > Regards, James Weaver >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > Wikidata mailing list Wikidata(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>>> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> - Andrew Gray andrew.gray(a)dunelm.org.uk >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wikidata mailing list Wikidata(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata >>> _________________________________________________ >>> Wikidata mailing list Wikidata(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata >> _______________________________________________ >>

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Hi James, This is quite similar to my proposal for a "culture" property [1], which would be used e.g. for Tenochtitlan [Q13695] has "culture" Mexica [Q3307681] (and probably also has culture Aztec [Q12542]). You could potentially extend the usage of this attribute so that you could have the "culture" of the Aztec Empire set to Mexica. I agree with Andrew that "inhabited by" is a property that needs adding - though in this case, it wouldn't indicate that Mexica were rulers of the Aztec Empire, just that they lived in it. Thanks, Lawrence [1] "culture" property proposal: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/Creative_work#cult… On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 at 09:49 Andrew Gray <andrew.gray(a)dunelm.org.uk> wrote: _______________________________________________ Wikidata mailing list Wikidata(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata