I don't understand why you can't make an item for each character or each person in a band. As long as you have a valid reference (IMDb? Book? out of my league here) you can make an item for anything

On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 12:45 PM, Jan Dudík <jan.dudik@gmail.com> wrote:
There is one big field, where redirects make sense: lists (of
characters) or members of bands

*Rob Bourdon (Q19205) have article in 38 languages. There is also part
of article de:Linkin_Park, which is about him and [[de:Rob Bourdon]]
is redirect.
*Character X from tv series Y is not notable enough to have separate
article, but it should have own item on wikidata. And there is article
about him in some small wiki. When you search , you found that there
is one article, but fifteen redirects to section (List of Y
characters#X)
*Fred Weasley (Q13359612) have one sitelink (to redirect), but
informations are in en, cs, fr, es, it, pt, pl, da and others too. But
when I want to find relevant articles, I must try each language
separate. With alowed redirects, I find it.

JAnD

2014-10-16 11:06 GMT+02:00 Jane Darnell <jane023@gmail.com>:
> With a view to supporting mobile, why bundle concepts needlessly into large
> articles? Why not split them out and use the typical Wikipedia blue link
> methodology to link them together? Some of the English Wikipedia articles
> are very unwieldy on mobile and you need to scroll through lots of stuff to
> get the information you are looking for. In the case you are describing
> however, I find the article rather short and I can't even see any reference
> to  the occupation of hatmaker at all unless you are referring to a list of
> notable hatters and milliners (which also seems rather short).
>
> On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 10:40 AM, James Heald <j.heald@ucl.ac.uk> wrote:
>>
>> We have the relevant information on :en in "hatmaking".
>>
>> Why create a stub?  Why require the duplication?
>>
>> Surely it is for client wikis to decide how they want to treat topics,
>> either in a big omnibus article, or in a lot of little articles -- that is a
>> decision for them.
>>
>> But we should be helping readers moving from one language to another to
>> find the nearest equivalent in that language -- no matter whether in that
>> language it is a small part of a large article, or a separate article in its
>> own right.
>>
>>   -- James.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 16/10/2014 09:29, Jane Darnell wrote:
>>>
>>> James,
>>> I totally agree with Gerard and I totally disagree with you. The fact
>>> that
>>> the English Wikipedia does not have an article on "hatmaker" is not
>>> something that Wikidata should support, and the energy you are wasting
>>> with
>>> your talk about redirects could better be spent on making a stub for
>>> "hatmaker" on the English wikipedia.
>>> Jane
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 9:34 AM, James Heald <j.heald@ucl.ac.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I am sorry, Gerard, you seem to have fundamentally misunderstood what I
>>>> am
>>>> saying.
>>>>
>>>> To be clearer:
>>>>
>>>> * Noting that a link goes to a redirect is a feature of the *sitelink*
>>>> not
>>>> the item.
>>>> * It is no more "Wikipedia centric" than noting that a link goes to a
>>>> featured article in some language, or any other badge.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not proposing items be introduced for "new things that do not exist"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Let's take an example, from Project Chat recently.
>>>>
>>>> * "Hatmaking" is a real-world concept that exists.  We have an article
>>>> on
>>>> it in English Wikipedia:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatmaking
>>>> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q663375
>>>>
>>>> * "Hatmaker" is a real-world concept that exists.  We have an article
>>>> on it on lots of Wikipedias.  https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q18199649
>>>>
>>>> The two concepts are not the same.  One is a skill, the other is an
>>>> occupation.  They have a P425 / P na  relationship.
>>>>
>>>> It therefore would not make any sense to add "Hatmaking" as a label to
>>>> the
>>>> "Hatmaker" item.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> At the moment, there is no sitelink to :en: defined for "Hatmaker".
>>>>
>>>> What would make sense would be to sitelink to the redirect page
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hatmaker&redirect=no
>>>> with a badge, noting that this was a sitelink to a redirect page.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> At the moment, there is no sitelink to wikis other than :en: defined for
>>>> "Hatmaking"
>>>>
>>>> What would make sense would be to create redirects on these wikis,
>>>> linking
>>>> to their articles on "Hatmaker", and then add sitelinks to the
>>>> "Hatmaking"
>>>> item, pointing to these redirects in each of the languages.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> To give another example:
>>>>
>>>> On Commons, we have a creator page for the engraver Daniel Havell,
>>>> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Creator:Daniel_Havell
>>>> which ought to be made to draw from a Wikidata item for the engraver.
>>>> (cf https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Template:Creator/wrapper/test for
>>>> tests)
>>>>
>>>> On en-wiki, there is no separate article for Daniel Havell.  Instead
>>>> there
>>>> is a redirect, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Daniel_Havell&
>>>> redirect=no, which points to a section of an article on the Havell
>>>> family:
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Havell_family#Daniel_Havell
>>>>
>>>> Wikidata should have an item on Daniel Havell, which points to this
>>>> redirect.
>>>>
>>>> That way, when the Creator template on Commons wants a link target on
>>>> :enwiki, the Wikidata item can supply it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As I said, Gerard, I think you misunderstood what I was talking about.
>>>>
>>>> I hope it is clearer and makes more sense to you now.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> All best,
>>>>
>>>>     James.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 16/10/2014 06:15, Gerard Meijssen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hoi,
>>>>> I seriously fail to see how an example how Wikidata can be abused is a
>>>>> good
>>>>> thing. Redirects are imho seriously stupid. They are utterly Wikipedia
>>>>> centric and they introduce new things that do not exist.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>      - a redirect page to three pages is also called an disambiguation
>>>>> page..
>>>>>      We do support them. They are not redirects.
>>>>>      - when a redirect page refers to an article by another name, it
>>>>> only
>>>>>      takes a label to add the needed link to the subject
>>>>>
>>>>> Seriously WHY ARE WE EVEN TALKING ABOUT THIS?
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>         GerardM
>>>>>
>>>>> On 14 October 2014 23:22, James Heald <j.heald@ucl.ac.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>   Creating sitelinks to redirects:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As I understand it, the classic workaround for this is to
>>>>>> *  go to client wiki,
>>>>>> *  edit the page temporarily so that it is not a redirect
>>>>>> *  add a sitelink
>>>>>> *  edit the page again to turn it back into a redirect.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thus, at least as I understand it, there is no overwhelming technical
>>>>>> barrier to creating a sitelink to a redirect.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Looking back through the archives of Project Chat, it seems to be a
>>>>>> perennial thing that we ought to permit sitelinks to redirects, eg
>>>>>> most
>>>>>> recently at
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Project_chat#Should_
>>>>>> all_occupations_be_separate_items_from_their_skills.3F
>>>>>>
>>>>>> which led to Kaldari filing Bugzilla: 71859
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But I'm not quite sure exactly what he wants solved, if sitelinks to
>>>>>> redirects are /already/ possible.  (Albeit requiring the slightly
>>>>>> roundabout process above).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Perhaps what is needed is just a concerted RfC, to confirm once and
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> all that it is indeed the community view that such sitelinks are
>>>>>> useful,
>>>>>> and should be created.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But there are a couple of things it would be nice to have, to confirm
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> practice:
>>>>>> *  A badge (eg the letter R on a red disc) to indicate that the
>>>>>> sitelink
>>>>>> to language xx is linking to a redirect, not a primary article.
>>>>>> *  On an item, a new property "redirected to", taking another item as
>>>>>> its
>>>>>> object, and the identity of the wiki as a qualifier.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> After that, we should go out creating this redirects on client wikis
>>>>>> en
>>>>>> masse, and site-linking them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This would solve a huge number of issues we currently have, where wiki
>>>>>> A
>>>>>> has lots of little articles, whereas wiki B has the same content all
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> sections of one article; or where wiki A and wiki B have chosen
>>>>>> different
>>>>>> primary items for their treatment of a field.  (For example: the
>>>>>> profession
>>>>>> 'hatmaker' or the activity 'hatmaking').
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Allowing and encouraging sitelinks to redirect is the key to keeping a
>>>>>> clean item structure on Wikidata, while still connecting readers to
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> most relevant pages in their preferred alternative languages.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     -- James.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 14/10/2014 21:00, Jane Darnell wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   nope
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 6:23 PM, Smolenski Nikola <smolensk@eunet.rs>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    Citiranje Jane Darnell <jane023@gmail.com>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>   2) There is no way of making an interwikilink for a redirect, and
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> German Wikipedia's "afrikanische Pflaume" is currently a redirect
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> "Prunus"
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You should still be able to make an interwiki link for a redirect
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> old
>>>>>>>> way,
>>>>>>>> are you not?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>
>>
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