On 15 Apr 2015 11:34 am, "Jan Ainali" <jan.ainali(a)wikimedia.se> wrote:
Perhaps some serious thought should go into guiding the user in what an
appropriate
upload is rather than just make it super easy to upload the
very first time?
We tried. This is a very very hard problem. Explaining copyright law is
difficult and no matter how many barriers we put in place the instant
gratification of having contributed something valuable overruled that.
Didn't mobile web have around ~80% {{speedy}} and ~10% rightfully
successful deletion requests?
If I understand correctly Wikigrok will not be "direct editing" on
Wikidata, but rather collecting data to see if it gets a good enough
validity that there is a coherence on the data before a bot does the edit.
How about trying something similar for images? Mobile upload to a staging
area, where other app users can tag it as useful/spam/out-of-scope and
perhaps even add categories to it before the actual upload to Commons
happen?
Yeh this is definitely an option but we don't have infrastructure for this
for images...
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> 2015-04-15 20:16 GMT+02:00 Jon Robson <jdlrobson(a)gmail.com>om>:
>
>> On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 9:05 AM, Brian
Gerstle <bgerstle(a)wikimedia.org
wrote:
> >> Because Commons is afraid of the massive
influx of selfies that will
then
> >> have to be deleted, binding admin time
and upsetting the uploader
(who is,
>> >> likely, not aware of the Commons policies).
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >> As was said before in this thread, some filtering at the source
>> >> (smartphone) will have to be implemented to keep everyone sane (YMMV).
>>
>>
>> > I understand apps are focusing on
readership at the moment, but are
there
> > any investigations figuring out how to scale
contribution workflows
and/or
> > moderation? I appreciate that this is a
difficult problem, and I hope
we're
>> > putting earnest effort into figuring out how to mitigate or solve it.
>>
>> > I'm
just troubled by some of the language used here, and elsewhere,
which
> > describes a "fear" of more users. I
can't help but wonder how many
companies
> > or services would readily welcome a
"massive influx of users." How
will
>> > Wikipedia or Commons succeed if we're afraid growth?
>
>> +1. How we change this culture is the
holy grail of Wikimedia's
>> future. Unless we change this, our project will die imo. I was really
>> saddened to see mobile uploads disappear from web - we had a lot of
>> spam yes but we also had people posting never before available photos
>> of diseases [1]. Our communities reaction seems to be to push back on
>> influxes of new edits which makes me feel we should be spending more
>> time on moderation tools - but so far I don't see any hint that this
>> will become a focus. This is a bigger problem than web and apps but so
>> far we see this more than most... I think this is something we'd have
>> to convince Lila is a good use of our time...
>
>> [1]
http://wikimedia-l.wikimedia.narkive.com/AihmOoNe/mobile-image-upload
>
>>
>> > Also, aren't we dealing with this to a certain extent with
>> > Wikidata/Wikigrok?
>>
>>
>> > On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 11:23 AM,
Jon Robson <jdlrobson(a)gmail.com
wrote:
>> >
>> >>
There seems to be two things in conflict when dealing with anything
upload
>> >> related.
>> >> 1) uploading from a mobile phone is easy - that's a good thing
>> >> 2) uploading useful content to commons is difficult for most people
>> >
>> >>
Remember we made it super easy on web and we even limited who could
see it
> >> but people still uploaded selfies and
copyvios. IMO the copyvios were
an
>> >> attempt to be helpful.
>> >
>> >> So
I ask you what's more important - 1 or 2? The only really the
commons
> >> app was a roaring success was the lack of
its brand value as Amir
says most
> >> "muggles" don't know what
it is so this serves as a filter for people
that
> >> use the app. Folding this functionality
into a Wikipedia app would
make you
>> >> hit problem 2 and all the moderation problems associated with it.
>> >
>> >> On
15 Apr 2015 4:54 am, "Amir E. Aharoni" <
amir.aharoni(a)mail.huji.ac.il
>> >>
wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>
> An Android Commons mobile app is probably the mandatory
catalisator for
> >>> > hundreds of millions of people
to participate to Commons. If you
have only
> >>> > 300 unique users a month with an
official Commons app, IMO the
only thing it
>> >>> > tells you is: the app is not good enough!
>> >>
>> >>>
Muggles (no offense, honestly) don't know what "Commons" is.
>> >>
>> >>>
Either we need to educate the world that Commons is an awesome
repository
> >>> of media that can compete with Flickr
and Instagram, or we need to
bundle it
>> >>> with the Wikipedia app, which a lot of people do have.
>> >>
>> >>>
Facebook unbundled the Messenger app from the Facebook app, and
millions
> >>> hate it, but the same millions use it
because they are hooked too
strongly,
> >>> and Facebook has a super-strong
interest in hooking people to the
Messenger
>> >>> (the most popular explanation is that they want to transition it to
a
>> >>> payment processing app).
>> >>
>> >>>
We are not in the business of hooking people, but in the business of
>> >>> sharing knowledge. I'd actually love the first thing to happen -
to
>> >>> popularize the Commons as a truly free competitor to Flickr, etc.
But at
> >>> this point in time this appears to be
a much higher-hanging fruit
than
>> >>> adding easy image sharing functionality to the Wikipedia app.
>> >>
>> >>>
> But, these numbers are not a surprise to me. I have tested Commons
*in
> >>> > real conditions* a year ago in
Africa and the result was: almost
impossible
> >>> > to upload picture to Commons
(but no problem to upload the same
pictures to
>> >>> > Tumblr).
>> >>
>> >>>
I'm not sure that I understood: Is it because of server problems
that we
>> >>> can fix, or because there is no app?
>> >>
>> >>>
--
>> >>> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
>> >>>
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
>> >>> “We're living in pieces,
>> >>> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>
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>> >
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>>
>> > --
>> > EN Wikipedia user page:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Brian.gerstle
>> > IRC: bgerstle
>
>
>
>> --
>> Jon Robson
>> *
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>> *
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>> * @rakugojon
>
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