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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Canadian French (MF-Warburg)
   2. Re: Canadian French (Gerard Meijssen)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2016 09:55:47 +0100
From: MF-Warburg <mfwarburg@googlemail.com>
To: Wikimedia Foundation Language Committee
        <langcom@lists.wikimedia.org>
Cc: Lydia Pintscher <Lydia.Pintscher@wikimedia.de>
Subject: Re: [Langcom] Canadian French
Message-ID:
        <CAJKMOMUbise3intDA7zPu8mdbqnW0hPYymOuvHw2Dijiu223KQ@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Ok. So is there some rule of thumb we could formulate about whether or not
a specific BCP 47 should be allowed for Wikidata?

2016-11-23 6:26 GMT+01:00 Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen@gmail.com>:

> Hoi,
> Yes. But the point is that our position has always been that for a
> language we accept ISO-639-3 for Wikidata without a localisation effort.
> For BCP 47 we have not done so and there is not the same blanket need to
> accept them. When a BCP 47 needs a different date format, it is a matter of
> localisation to make that happen. It is not what this do in Wikidata.
> Thanks,
>      GerardM
>
> On 23 November 2016 at 01:44, Milos Rancic <millosh@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Nov 23, 2016 00:47, "MF-Warburg" <mfwarburg@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > 2016-11-22 15:33 GMT+01:00 Milos Rancic <millosh@gmail.com>:
>> >>
>> >> I don't think it's true at the moment, but imagine the next
>> integration:
>> >>
>> >> * A person is born on year/January/date. That's the data Wikipedia
>> >> should take from Wikidata.
>> >> * A user says "I am a German from Germany" and has that as
>> >> localization, instead of default Austrian version.
>> >> * What's the method of telling Wikidata to give German German January
>> >> instead of Austrian German January inside of the infobox?
>> >
>> >
>> > Well, as dates in Wikidata are not stored as "5. Jänner 1980" in the
>> first place, that seems no problem. The infobox' code will simply translate
>> 1980-01-05 differently, depending on the users' language settings. Or am I
>> mistaken?
>>
>> That was just an example, not the best one. The point is that Wikidata
>> operates with the open set of words and that we could easily come into the
>> position to force a user to read even something completely strangr to him
>> or her.
>>
>> For example, the term Art Noveau/Secession and similar could easily
>> become a category and a difference between the two varieties. And by
>> reading one variety, a user could come into position not to understand that.
>>
>> I could find a lot of such potential pairs between Serbian and Croatian,
>> which are distant on similar level as Spanish varieties, so it's not hard
>> to me to imagine that keeping strict ISO 639-3 codes instead of BCP 47
>> could make confusion.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Langcom mailing list
>> Langcom@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom

>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Langcom mailing list
> Langcom@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom

>
>
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2016 11:08:01 +0100
From: Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen@gmail.com>
To: Wikimedia Foundation Language Committee
        <langcom@lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: Re: [Langcom] Canadian French
Message-ID:
        <CAO53wxUoTFkzUYpMwY3W=5yoRB7T43bh9vvabAW0ePic-x03rw@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hoi,
In my opinion we should leave BCP 47 for what it is. There is no point in
including it at this time. It will become relevant once Wiktionary data is
included in Wikidata.
Thanks,
    GerardM

On 23 November 2016 at 09:55, MF-Warburg <mfwarburg@googlemail.com> wrote:

> Ok. So is there some rule of thumb we could formulate about whether or not
> a specific BCP 47 should be allowed for Wikidata?
>
> 2016-11-23 6:26 GMT+01:00 Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen@gmail.com>:
>
>> Hoi,
>> Yes. But the point is that our position has always been that for a
>> language we accept ISO-639-3 for Wikidata without a localisation effort.
>> For BCP 47 we have not done so and there is not the same blanket need to
>> accept them. When a BCP 47 needs a different date format, it is a matter of
>> localisation to make that happen. It is not what this do in Wikidata.
>> Thanks,
>>      GerardM
>>
>> On 23 November 2016 at 01:44, Milos Rancic <millosh@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Nov 23, 2016 00:47, "MF-Warburg" <mfwarburg@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > 2016-11-22 15:33 GMT+01:00 Milos Rancic <millosh@gmail.com>:
>>> >>
>>> >> I don't think it's true at the moment, but imagine the next
>>> integration:
>>> >>
>>> >> * A person is born on year/January/date. That's the data Wikipedia
>>> >> should take from Wikidata.
>>> >> * A user says "I am a German from Germany" and has that as
>>> >> localization, instead of default Austrian version.
>>> >> * What's the method of telling Wikidata to give German German January
>>> >> instead of Austrian German January inside of the infobox?
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Well, as dates in Wikidata are not stored as "5. Jänner 1980" in the
>>> first place, that seems no problem. The infobox' code will simply translate
>>> 1980-01-05 differently, depending on the users' language settings. Or am I
>>> mistaken?
>>>
>>> That was just an example, not the best one. The point is that Wikidata
>>> operates with the open set of words and that we could easily come into the
>>> position to force a user to read even something completely strangr to him
>>> or her.
>>>
>>> For example, the term Art Noveau/Secession and similar could easily
>>> become a category and a difference between the two varieties. And by
>>> reading one variety, a user could come into position not to understand that.
>>>
>>> I could find a lot of such potential pairs between Serbian and Croatian,
>>> which are distant on similar level as Spanish varieties, so it's not hard
>>> to me to imagine that keeping strict ISO 639-3 codes instead of BCP 47
>>> could make confusion.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Langcom mailing list
>>> Langcom@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom

>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Langcom mailing list
>> Langcom@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom

>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Langcom mailing list
> Langcom@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom

>
>
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