On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 10:16, Fred Bauder <fredbaud@fairpoint.net> wrote:

> My point is this: a significant number of women (current and potential
> editors) don't want to work in a "I like the big tits" atmosphere,
> whatever
> was meant by it. Others don't mind. Point is that some *do* mind.
 
So, was it an inane remark or a symptom of an atmosphere? I'm pretty sure
you don't want to see an authoritarian crackdown either. We come down
heavy on Wikipedia sometimes, but for much more egregious behavior.

The problem is that such moves don't change culture, in fact, may
sometimes facilitate it, if traction can be gained by aggrieved users who
feel they are being treated unfairly.

I see it as an inane remark that's symptomatic of the culture, in the sense that the poster thought it appropriate to post it.

Moving away from discussing this image now, to the broader issue, we do see a fair number of comments like that on Wikipedia, and letting them pass without comment simply means they'll never stop.

We had a situation recently where we were discussing a BLP, and part of the content was that the woman had experienced a serious sexual assault. In the course of discussing how to approach it, a couple of remarks were made that tended to downplay what had happened to her, and one person -- in a different section on the talk page -- commented on how attractive she was, and how he wanted to have her babies.

I was so disgusted by this that I felt (and to some extent still feel) that I didn't want to be involved in the project anymore, because why am I wasting my time in that kind of atmosphere? I felt that it said something about me, rather than about them.

I also had to decide whether to say something, or let it lie, and if I did say something, I had to make sure I was polite and circumspect, rather than screaming it from the rooftops, which is what I wanted to do. And it suddenly felt like nothing had changed in the last 40 years, that these remarks still appear, and that women are still made to feel bad if they challenge them. And if we do challenge them, must be extra polite about it. Not make a fuss.

So that felt kind of depressing.

Sarah