I think most people here will remember the appalling harassment Anita
Sarkeesian suffered in YouTube and on Wikipedia.
If not, see
http://www.feministfrequency.com/2012/06/harassment-misogyny-and-silencing-…http://www.feministfrequency.com/2012/06/harassment-and-misogyny-via-wikipe…
So now we have another ANI thread on her biography
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incide…
The discussion is whether a chap who made the following comment (among many
others) should be topic-banned from her biography:
---o0o---
Now she has over 4 million views, which is a huge leap (relatively),
despite not publishing any new videos since then - these 3 million new
views, and a big fame (especially among gamers), and the notability (also
on Wikipedia), and the money (from donations), all of it was only due to
the massive trolling response to her trailer video for a Kickstarter
project, which she then *media-savy way used to start a huge moral panic (a
smooth move, I'll admit) instead of just ignoring it, or do things like [
http://www.destructoid.com/bioware-writer-s-vagina-versus-the-internet-2222…
literally using her vagina,
* which is what Hepler did], and so this is what she is "best known for"
(note: best).
---o0o---
That guy is the most frequent editor of her biography's talk page, having
made over three times more edits to it than the next editor.
http://toolserver.org/~daniel/WikiSense/Contributors.php?wikilang=en&wikifa…
The ANI discussion has been running for a week.
Andreas
Hi all,
yesterday I had that discussion on #wikimedia-en-help where I (= rindolf) tried
to help someone (I think he was a guy, but it doesn't matter) with getting his
article for review accepted:
<<<<
<Helpmebot> Hi Referenced99, welcome to the help channel for the English
Wikipedia! Move the cursor to the input area at the bottom of the window, type
your question and press Enter, and a helper should be around shortly to answer
your questions. If your question is about a particular page please make sure
your question includes the URL or name of the page in question.
<Referenced99> I need very detailed instructions about why this page
keeps getting rejected because of 'unreliable sources'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Bjarnmar/sandbox. Even the wiki page for
sterling silver says at the top that some of its sources need to be verified -
but it was still allowed to be a page, so?
<Hersfold> just because some pages have issues doesn't mean we should
allow them to spread
<Referenced99> And i have used sources such as Variety, and when they
said it was not proven his music really existed i put the acutal link to where
it is in different parts of the world and that's still not enough?
<Referenced99> But that's just it Hersfold - what are the issues with
this page? i have even used some references that were accepted on other pages
related to his work but they were rejected in this case?
<Hersfold> I'm a bit occupied and don't really have time to look myself,
but someone else may be around
<Hersfold> !helper
<MJ94> ues?
<MJ94> yes?
<Referenced99> How is Danmarks Radio, the largest TV station in Denmark,
an unreliable source when I link to his work and credits on their site?
<MJ94> Referenced99: one sec
<MJ94> Referenced99: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Rs
<Referenced99> Sorry to bother you Herford...have a nice Saturday
<MJ94> Referenced99: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Imdb#IMDb
IMDB is generally not a "reliable" source.
<Referenced99> Yes, MJ94 I have seen that page and I still don't
understand - and I only use IMDB as an Additional Link but every one of the
links above it are genuine lnks to professional pages that have or reference
his work?
<Referenced99> Politiken is one of the largest newspapers in the
country, and I referenced them, Variety is known and used as a reference - I
really don't understand the problem?
<Referenced99> The British Film Institute site is also used as as
reference - so what is wrong? I am really trying to understand
<Referenced99> But could someone please look at the page and tell me
what is wrong with the references I have now? Then I could better understand,
it would be more specific, please?
<rindolf> Referenced99: where is the page again?
<Referenced99> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Bjarnmar/sandbox
<rindolf> Referenced99: ah, well, it should be more a biography.
<Referenced99> Thank you, rindolf, I would appreciate your help. I have
looked at the general guide but I still don't understand what is wrong with my
references
<rindolf> Referenced99: like other biography of living people.
<Referenced99> Just a moment, reading you...
<rindolf> Referenced99: reading what?
<Referenced99> So what do I do differently i thought that was what I had
done (I meant reading your reply)
<Referenced99> I never did this before...
<Referenced99> I thought this was a biography page...
<rindolf> Referenced99: see for example
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Wall
<rindolf> Well, that may not be a good one.
<rindolf> Let's see.
<rindolf> Referenced99: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Hathaway
<Referenced99> Ok, i see that page, my page also starts with his name
and where he was born and goes on to his accomplishments - what am I missing?
<Referenced99> Looking at the hathaway page now...
<rindolf> Referenced99: OK.
<rindolf> Referenced99: your page reads too much like a resume.
<Referenced99> Yes, and except for the absence of a pic can you please
tell me spefically what I need to do that I haven't already done?
<rindolf> I mean a C.V.
<rindolf> Referenced99: structure it more like a biography.
<rindolf> Referenced99:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons
<Referenced99> well, in the earlier version it was more like the
hathaway but it was criticized, so like they said i went to pages of some other
composers and they had it more simply prominent works etc like i do now ...
<rindolf> Referenced99: ah, this reminds me of
http://www.bartleby.com/17/1/62.html
<Referenced99> kind of like this one
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Per_N%C3%B8rg%C3%A5rd where his work is listed...
<Referenced99> Anyway, you see the way his works are listed, that is
what I was doing but should i go back to the hathaway type?
<Referenced99> i have done it so many ways now i am almost dizzy, ha...
<rindolf> Referenced99: I think you should.
<Referenced99> Ok, I will use the hathaway model...do i have to label it
as a biography in any way or just change the way it's set up on the page? do i
need a pic from the start?
<Referenced99> I really appreciate your help, Rindolf!
<Referenced99> Have a great Saturday!
<rindolf> Referenced99: thanks.
<rindolf> Referenced99: Shabbath is over here in Israel.
<rindolf> Referenced99: according to the Hebrew Midrash.
<Referenced99> Shabbath, then ;D
<Referenced99> I am going to get to work on this now - and yes, it feels
a lot like the man the boy and the donkey...depending on which one gets the
page to review they all say something different. but I won't pull my hair out
just yet, ha
<rindolf> Referenced99: :-)
<rindolf> Aesop++
<Referenced99> Oh, I see...better, anyway, ha
<rindolf> Referenced99: also see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinson%27s_law_of_triviality
<Referenced99> One said to model it on other composers, another said
something else...
<rindolf> Referenced99: heh, heh.
<rindolf> Yes, it's always a problem with collaborative projects.
<Referenced99> yes, it seems like the trivial has the upper hand
here...when i mentioned earlier above that not even the wiki page for sterling
silver had reliable sources but it was still allowed to be a page - someone
said 'that's no reason to let such pages flourish' - !1
<rindolf> Referenced99: I think the Hebrew
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_Torah contains many instances of people
improving what other people said in the past, with something like a history.
<rindolf> Like, this Rabbi said X ; another said X1 ; another said X2 ;
another said X[1,2]
<Referenced99> But that's just it: they often are not improving, one
said there weren't enough music sources, but the one before him said nothing
about that...reading...
<rindolf> Referenced99: well, feel free to bring Aesop or the colour of
the bike shed argument as a way to tell people to make up their minds or shut
up.
<Referenced99> Well, Ok, the Torah is one thing, of course that should
give rise to interpretations etc...but this is just some facts about one of
Denmark's successful artists and it's like he's banned or something ha
<rindolf> Referenced99: this is also useful -
http://programming-motherfucker.com/
<Referenced99> LOL
<rindolf> JFDI - Just fucking do it.
<Referenced99> somehow i think that would seal this poor artist's fate...
<rindolf> Yes, it's a great page.
<rindolf> Referenced99: what will?
<Referenced99> if i cursed at them, then they will never allow this page
through and quite honestly i have read many of the other danish artists wiki
pages - some he has worked with also - and they have some imdb sources and not
much else - he has a ton in comparison
<Referenced99> but i can only keep trying, ha...
<rindolf> Referenced99: someone I know who studies in openu.ac.uk told
me they told him not to use wikipedia because everyone can edit it and it's not
a reliable source, and now he concluded that he shouldn't read any wikipedia
page I link to him.
<rindolf> Like a page that someone puts elsewhere on a Web 1.0 web-site
is necessarily any better.
<Demiurge1000> http://enwp.org/WP:42 is useful
<rindolf> Demiurge1000: OK.
<Referenced99> well, it would be different if they would just let the
page go up, and if someone edits it wrongly i will fix it, or someone else
will, but i've been rying to get this page up since May 2012...
<Referenced99> Thanks for that link...geneally trusted would be the
newspapers and british film institute and tv sites i list as
sources...hmmm...but i will try try try again (sigh)
<Referenced99> Bye now!! ;D
<Demiurge1000> newspapers are indeed most useful
<rindolf> Referenced99: bye.
<-- Referenced99 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
>>>>
Well, here are some more of my thoughts:
Wikimedia projects now have many rules, and different projects have
slightly different rules. In wikis rules kinda dictate how we should strive for
quality instead of just senselessly adding more and more quantity. However,
quantity is also important, because we want to avoid the fate of
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nupedia which only had very few articles. People
come to Wikipedia (and often stay) in order to learn about their favourite
music star or actor, or about one book or another, or a common phrase, or a
popular game, or whatever, and I don't want to lose it, just because it fell
out of the scope of the latest edition of Encyclopaedia Britannica. So we
should encourage more quantity *and* more quality.
It is very effortless to mark something as "non-notable",
"request-for-deletion", "does-not-cite-any-references-and-sources", but it is
also something that will make more people more bitter and not as happy. A lot
of people parrot http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Art_of_War as an ideal way to
confront your enemies, but I prefer learning from the actions and heritage of
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saladin . Despite the fact that the Christian
occupation of Palestine at that time after the first two crusades was
discriminatory and suppressive, Saladin consciously decided to act in a noble
and forgiving way. Some of the stories about him are astonishing: when the
horse of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_I_of_England (Richard the Lion’s
Heart) died, Saladin gave him two good war horses. When Richard got sick,
Saladin allowed his personal doctor to take care of him (back then Muslim
medicine was considered the best in the world ). I also read a wikipedia page
about a certain French knight (about whom there was a recent film) who
travelled on the third crusade to fight Saladin, was captured, and Saladin
made him swear he won't fight him again; then the Pope at the time
considered it un-upholdable, because it was an oath given to a non-believer and
he returned to fight Saladin again. And Saladin was perfectly acceptable of the
knight's decision to believe the pope (!!) and had the knight fight him again.
I think the Art of War aims to make sure your enemies will be devastated as much
as possible, while Saladin's philosophy was to make sure that in the long run,
your enemy will be less motivated to fight you, will think extremely highly of
you, and you will eventually make him look bad, and win. That's true victory.
So what about the wikimedia projects? I think we should try more to be
friendly, invest more time in educating (while avoiding quick and effortless
trigger happy stuff like removing whole sections or gradually "removing sesame
seeds" - http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2007/09/11.html ), care taking and
guidance instead of in dismissing something as bad or immediately removing it
due to some problems. A good “crowd-sourcing” collaborative project is often
an exercise in doing the same thing again and again, but we have to do that
and have patience, compassion and appreciation. We answer the same questions
over and over again on such Freenode channels such as #perl or ##programming ,
but we cannot really expect people to read the F. A. Q. at the topic. We need
to avoid short-term “gains” in time, hostility and psychological “tactics” with
a much better long term strategy of encouraging people to contribute. Many
times people complain that they don't have enough time, but like I note in
http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/Star-Trek/We-the-Living-Dead/ :
<<<
Q2: No. Busy
people are unproductive. We are very productive and so we’re never busy.
>>>
(If you're a Star Trek fan, you can read the rest of the screenplay, to get more
of my philosophy behind it). Many mathematicians will tell you that they
also consider Mathematics an art, and that some proofs are beautiful, or that,
like good artists, they want to publish everything they discovered or found.
Mathematics still requires a lot of creative processes and still cannot
really be automated (reaching a proof is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NP-hard I
think, and the heuristics do not scale well). And if Mathematics is an art, we
need to understand that writing (using conceptual thought and written and/or
spoken languages), including both fiction, scientific/non-fiction, essays and
everything in between is also an art. And that we should treat the people who
are trying to help us like human beings, not like machines that emit streams
of characters, because they are much more than that.
Sorry that this message was so long. Comments are welcome.
Sincerely yours,
Shlomi Fish
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/
Why I Love Perl - http://shlom.in/joy-of-perl
If Botticelli were alive today, he’d be working for Vogue.
— http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Peter_Ustinov
Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .
Hi all,
I'm not a listmod, so this is no sort of an official communication, but I
want to remind everyone that this is a publicly-archived mailing list under
the umbrella of the WMF. This means that what you say here can, and
probably will, be seen by people not involved in the list, including other
Wikipedians, news organizations, and probably sometimes the people who are
being discussed here. Think before you hit "send" whether what you've said
is something that's appropriate to be saying in the manner you are, or in
any manner at all offwiki. This is a hugely supportive mailing list, and
that's awesome, but it's not the place to badmouth others or recruit
friends to help in a dispute.
-Fluffernutter
Hi all,
sorry for crossposting, but I think this job add is worth spreading
throughout the whole movement – and beyond. So please feel free to
forward it to any friend, village pump, mailing list or social media
site of your choice.
For reference, you can find the ad here:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Chapters_Association/Election_comm…
Thanks a lot and best regards,
Nicole
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Markus Glaser <markus.glaser(a)wikimedia.de>
Date: 26 January 2013 16:49
Subject: [Chapters] Job offer: Secretary-General for Chapters Association
To: Wikimedia Chapters general discussions <chapters(a)wikimedia.ch>
Dear all,
after a long period of discussions and clarifications, we are now
finally starting our search for a Secretary-General to serve the
Chapters Association.
Please distribute to following text to as many of your contacts,
mailing-lists and networks as possible.
Thank you very much,
kind regards,
Markus
Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
------------------------------------------
The Chapters Association (CA) will be an umbrella organization for
Wikimedia chapters established in various regions around the world.
The association represents the common interests of those chapters
within the Wikimedia movement.
One of its goals is to set, review and enforce standards of
accountability and participation among its members. The association
will facilitate the exchange of experiences, ideas, and knowledge
between chapters and assist them in their organizational development
and to develop common programs and projects.
To enhance external communication, coordinate the Wikimedia movement
and represent its chapters on official occasions, CA is looking for an
experienced and motivated person to become the full-time
Secretary-General (f/m)
of the Chapters Association.
CA is incorporated in Geneva, however depending on your place of
residence a relocation might not be necessary.
Job description
The Secretary-General is to be head of the CA´s Secretariat as defined
by the CA´s charter. The Secretariat performs the executive powers of
the Association. The Secretary-General will be elected by the Council.
The other Members of the Secretariat are appointed by the
Secretary-General, with the consent of the Council. The Secretariat
reports to the Council on the Association's activities and has the
right to submit proposals for Council resolutions.
She/He will be responsible for:
Defining the organizational structure, publishing job offers and
hiring the officers of the secretariat;
Building the strategic plan for the association;
Assuring the financial stability of the organization;
Coordinating between all association members;
Building annual program plans to achieve the CA mission;
Handling all formal administrative tasks including finance,
communications, legal and technical;
and preparing the assemblies of the CA council.
Desired personal traits
Leader – the selected Secretary-General will have to build the
organization from its earliest stages according to the outlines set by
the CA council.
Administrator – some of the tasks of the Secretary-General would be of
administrative nature. She/He would have to write detailed program
plans, review by-laws, financial reports, program plans and program
reports of other organizations.
Excellent communication skills – one of the the Secretary-General's
primary tasks would be to communicate with member chapters. Those
chapters are dispersed in different regions of the worlds representing
various cultural habits. The selected Secretary-General would have to
be multi-culturally-minded to work effectively with these partners.
Willing and able to travel world-wide.
Proven experience with building and managing a large diverse organization.
Comfortable working with people at all levels of the organization,
including community members and volunteers.
Experience in other like-minded/ international/ volunteer-driven/
non-profit/ peer-review-driven organizations would be considered as an
advantage.
The ideal candidate will be hard-working, creative, highly-motivated,
and able to operate and effectively manage multiple cultural contexts,
time-zones and expectations
Incredible diplomatic problem-solving skills in an international
environment as well as the ability to deal comfortably and efficiently
with ambiguity and an ever changing environment
Must be fluent in English; skill in other languages would be
considered as an advantage.
Great to have
University degree
Experience within the Wikimedia movement. However, according to CA´s
charter a Member of the Secretariat cannot be a Council Member or hold
a position in a Chapter or in the Wikimedia Foundation.
Love working with a highly collaborative, consensus oriented environment
Competitive salary package. Please send your cover letter, full CV,
salary expectations and at least two references in one .pdf file to:
chaptersassociation(a)wikimedia.ch
In case of any questions, please also use email and the address given above.
Publication date: 26.01.2013 - Application deadline: 15.02.2013
Seat and postal address: Wikimedia Switzerland, 8008 Zurich
Office: Wikimedia CH, Escaliers du Marché 2, CH-1003 Lausanne
Web: www.wikimedia.ch
_______________________________________________
Chapters mailing list
Chapters(a)wikimedia.ch
https://intern.wikimedia.ch/lists/listinfo/chapters
--
Nicole Ebber
Internationales
Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Obentrautstr. 72 | 10963 Berlin
Tel. +49 30 219158 26-0
http://wikimedia.de
Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.