Praise for the mobile site

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Steven Walling

26 Aug 2014 26 Aug '14

11:30 p.m.

"Wikipedia already looks great ... just add .m (on desktop)" https://news.layervault.com/stories/31897-wikipedia-already-looks-great--ju… For those unfamiliar, this is a designer's equivalent to Hacker News. Interesting to see professional UX designers be less forgiving towards the WikiWand design, in addition to the warm fuzzies from the love for the mobile site. This kind of feedback makes me wish you could set your desktop skin to use mobile (aka Minerva). Or may e have clicking the "mobile view" link set a cookie for my session to auto-redirect to mobile. Otherwise, it's hard to evaluate how the mobile view stands up over sustained use on desktop. -- Steven Walling, Product Manager https://wikimediafoundation.org/

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Jon Robson

26 Aug 26 Aug

11:41 p.m.

It's actually very trivial to enable Minerva on desktop. Currently you can do so appending useskin=minerva e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_D._Roosevelt?useskin=minerva but we purposely hide it from the preferences. This is easy to rectify though if you wanted us to. Although it does come with some caveats... 1) section toggling doesn't get enabled, as result there is no concept of a lead section, so 'this page has issues' captures every issue in the page (there may be repeats) 2) You cannot edit anything other than the lead section (linked to above) 3) Special:Watchlist renders as normal desktop version https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Watchlist?useskin=minerva 5) Ugly preferences page rather than Special:MobileOptions (see https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php? 4) Special:History unavailable https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:History/Franklin_D._Roosevelt?useskin… 5) Ugly preferences page rather than Special:MobileOptions (see https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Preferences&returnto… - however this will render more nicely with the MediaWiki UI patch [1]) 6) No uploads link in left menu 7) Talk page link renders but takes you to the standard talk page 8) The footer is different [1] https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/150635 On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 4:30 PM, Steven Walling <swalling(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:

...

-- Jon Robson * http://jonrobson.me.uk * https://www.facebook.com/jonrobson * @rakugojon

Steven Walling

11:46 p.m.

On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 4:41 PM, Jon Robson <jdlrobson(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

Yeah but that's not persistent across views right? Tomasz: thanks for the tip. I'll give it a spin. ;) -- Steven Walling, Product Manager https://wikimediafoundation.org/

Jon Robson

11:53 p.m.

Only because of a single line of code. We can surface it in Special:Preferences easily but I suspect we'll want to fix some of the caveats first... we just have to remove the code here [1] [1] https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/118037/7/includes/MobileFrontend.hooks.p… On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 4:46 PM, Steven Walling <swalling(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:

...

On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 4:41 PM, Jon Robson <jdlrobson(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Yeah but that's not persistent across views right? Tomasz: thanks for the tip. I'll give it a spin. ;) -- Steven Walling, Product Manager https://wikimediafoundation.org/ _______________________________________________ Design mailing list Design(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design

-- Jon Robson * http://jonrobson.me.uk * https://www.facebook.com/jonrobson * @rakugojon

Jon Robson

11:53 p.m.

...

On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 4:41 PM, Jon Robson <jdlrobson(a)gmail.com> wrote:

-- Jon Robson * http://jonrobson.me.uk * https://www.facebook.com/jonrobson * @rakugojon

Derk-Jan Hartman

27 Aug 27 Aug

9:02 a.m.

I do note that due to the mobile vs desktop targets of resource loader behavior, the desktop site seems to have a few problems when using minerva. I get "ReferenceError: Can't find variable: importScript global code (index.php, line 14)" when I used the "useskin=minerva" approach. DJ On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 1:53 AM, Jon Robson <jdlrobson(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 4:41 PM, Jon Robson <jdlrobson(a)gmail.com> wrote:

-- Jon Robson * http://jonrobson.me.uk * https://www.facebook.com/jonrobson * @rakugojon

-- Jon Robson * http://jonrobson.me.uk * https://www.facebook.com/jonrobson * @rakugojon _______________________________________________ Design mailing list Design(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design

Jon Robson

28 Aug 28 Aug

10:37 p.m.

I created a bug to capture these issues https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=70142 The DJ where are you seeing this exception being thrown? I had thought that the desktop skin forced the mobile target to avoid these issues but maybe I am wrong... On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 2:02 AM, Derk-Jan Hartman <d.j.hartman+wmf_ml(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 4:41 PM, Jon Robson <jdlrobson(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > It's actually very trivial to enable Minerva on desktop. Currently you > can do so appending useskin=minerva e.g. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_D._Roosevelt?useskin=minerva > but we purposely hide it from the preferences. This is easy to rectify > though if you wanted us to. Yeah but that's not persistent across views right? Tomasz: thanks for the tip. I'll give it a spin. ;) -- Steven Walling, Product Manager https://wikimediafoundation.org/ _______________________________________________ Design mailing list Design(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design

-- Jon Robson * http://jonrobson.me.uk * https://www.facebook.com/jonrobson * @rakugojon

_______________________________________________ Design mailing list Design(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design

-- Jon Robson * http://jonrobson.me.uk * https://www.facebook.com/jonrobson * @rakugojon

Sarah

2 Sep 2 Sep

6:45 a.m.

One thing I've noticed about the mobile site, and that I see is being discussed in various places, is that there's no obvious way to get to article talk pages. Am I just missing it? Sarah On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 3:37 PM, Jon Robson <jdlrobson(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

approach.

DJ On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 1:53 AM, Jon Robson <jdlrobson(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I forgot to add if we set $wgMFEnableMinervaBetaFeature = true it also > registers it as a beta feature. Another option at our disposal... > > > On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 4:53 PM, Jon Robson <jdlrobson(a)gmail.com>

wrote:

>> Only because of a single line of code. We can surface it in >> Special:Preferences easily but I suspect we'll want to fix some of the >> caveats first... we just have to remove the code here [1] >> >> [1]

https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/118037/7/includes/MobileFrontend.hooks.p…

>> >> On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 4:46 PM, Steven Walling <

swalling(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:

>>> >>> On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 4:41 PM, Jon Robson <jdlrobson(a)gmail.com>

wrote:

>>>> >>>> It's actually very trivial to enable Minerva on desktop. Currently

you

>>>> can do so appending useskin=minerva e.g. >>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_D._Roosevelt?useskin=minerva >>>> but we purposely hide it from the preferences. This is easy to

rectify

>> though if you wanted us to. > > > Yeah but that's not persistent across views right? > > Tomasz: thanks for the tip. I'll give it a spin. ;) > > > > -- > Steven Walling, > Product Manager > https://wikimediafoundation.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > Design mailing list > Design(a)lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design > -- Jon Robson * http://jonrobson.me.uk * https://www.facebook.com/jonrobson * @rakugojon

_______________________________________________ Design mailing list Design(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design

Steven Walling

6:49 a.m.

On Monday, September 1, 2014, Sarah <slimvirgin(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

One thing I've noticed about the mobile site, and that I see is being discussed in various places, is that there's no obvious way to get to article talk pages. Am I just missing it? Sarah

No, there is not an obvious way for now, though you can of course still use Search to get to any page.

...

On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 3:37 PM, Jon Robson <jdlrobson(a)gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','jdlrobson@gmail.com');>> wrote:

approach.

DJ On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 1:53 AM, Jon Robson <jdlrobson(a)gmail.com

<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','jdlrobson@gmail.com');>> wrote:

> I forgot to add if we set $wgMFEnableMinervaBetaFeature = true it also > registers it as a beta feature. Another option at our disposal... > > > On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 4:53 PM, Jon Robson <jdlrobson(a)gmail.com

<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','jdlrobson@gmail.com');>> wrote:

https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/118037/7/includes/MobileFrontend.hooks.p…

>> >> On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 4:46 PM, Steven Walling <

swalling(a)wikimedia.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','swalling@wikimedia.org');>> wrote:

>>> >>> On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 4:41 PM, Jon Robson <jdlrobson(a)gmail.com

<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','jdlrobson@gmail.com');>> wrote:

>>>> >>>> It's actually very trivial to enable Minerva on desktop. Currently

you

>>>> can do so appending useskin=minerva e.g. >>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_D._Roosevelt?useskin=minerva >>>> but we purposely hide it from the preferences. This is easy to

rectify

>>>> though if you wanted us to. >>> >>> >>> Yeah but that's not persistent across views right? >>> >>> Tomasz: thanks for the tip. I'll give it a spin. ;) >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Steven Walling, >>> Product Manager >>> https://wikimediafoundation.org/ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Design mailing list >>> Design(a)lists.wikimedia.org

<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Design@lists.wikimedia.org');>

>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Jon Robson >> * http://jonrobson.me.uk >> * https://www.facebook.com/jonrobson >> * @rakugojon > > > > -- > Jon Robson > * http://jonrobson.me.uk > * https://www.facebook.com/jonrobson > * @rakugojon > > _______________________________________________ > Design mailing list > Design(a)lists.wikimedia.org

<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Design@lists.wikimedia.org');>

https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design

_______________________________________________ Design mailing list Design(a)lists.wikimedia.org

<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Design@lists.wikimedia.org');>

https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design

-- Jon Robson * http://jonrobson.me.uk * https://www.facebook.com/jonrobson * @rakugojon _______________________________________________ Design mailing list Design(a)lists.wikimedia.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Design@lists.wikimedia.org');> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design

-- Steven Walling, Product Manager https://wikimediafoundation.org/

Jon Robson

6:50 a.m.

The talk pages are purposely not linked to. The main reason is in current form they render terrible on mobile: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lettuce You can however get to them via search/watchlist/links on wiki. Many people have never experienced talk before, various user tests we have run for both mobile and Winter show most people are surprised that they can talk about articles. For this reason we're keen to give them a good first experience. Throwing them on a page with lots and lots of template is a sure fire way to put any new potential editors off them for like. We will need some help from template maintainers to improve that (any volunteers?! :)) as in current form you have to scroll __a lot__ to get to the talk content itself You can enable some experiments with trying to make talk available on mobile in the beta [1] version of the site. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileOptions On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 7:45 AM, Sarah <slimvirgin(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

I forgot to add if we set $wgMFEnableMinervaBetaFeature = true it also registers it as a beta feature. Another option at our disposal... On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 4:53 PM, Jon Robson <jdlrobson(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Only because of a single line of code. We can surface it in > Special:Preferences easily but I suspect we'll want to fix some of the > caveats first... we just have to remove the code here [1] > > [1] > https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/118037/7/includes/MobileFrontend.hooks.p… > > On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 4:46 PM, Steven Walling > <swalling(a)wikimedia.org> wrote: >> >> On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 4:41 PM, Jon Robson <jdlrobson(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >>> >>> It's actually very trivial to enable Minerva on desktop. Currently >>> you >>> can do so appending useskin=minerva e.g. >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_D._Roosevelt?useskin=minerva >>> but we purposely hide it from the preferences. This is easy to >>> rectify >>> though if you wanted us to. >> >> >> Yeah but that's not persistent across views right? >> >> Tomasz: thanks for the tip. I'll give it a spin. ;) >> >> >> >> -- >> Steven Walling, >> Product Manager >> https://wikimediafoundation.org/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Design mailing list >> Design(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design >> > > > > -- > Jon Robson > * http://jonrobson.me.uk > * https://www.facebook.com/jonrobson > * @rakugojon -- Jon Robson * http://jonrobson.me.uk * https://www.facebook.com/jonrobson * @rakugojon _______________________________________________ Design mailing list Design(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design

_______________________________________________ Design mailing list Design(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design

-- Jon Robson * http://jonrobson.me.uk * https://www.facebook.com/jonrobson * @rakugojon

Quim Gil

6:56 a.m.

On Tuesday, September 2, 2014, Sarah <slimvirgin(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

One thing I've noticed about the mobile site, and that I see is being discussed in various places, is that there's no obvious way to get to article talk pages. Am I just missing it?

Sarah

7:32 a.m.

Thanks, Steven, Jon and Quim. The mobile site is uncollapsing the collapsed templates. If that could be fixed, the talk templates wouldn't be such a problem. Also, maybe you could create a "skip to discussion" link that bypasses them. Sarah On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 11:56 PM, Quim Gil <qgil(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:

...

On Tuesday, September 2, 2014, Sarah <slimvirgin(a)gmail.com> wrote:

One thing I've noticed about the mobile site, and that I see is being discussed in various places, is that there's no obvious way to get to article talk pages. Am I just missing it?

See also Bug 52165 <https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52165> - Links to talk pages in mobile view https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52165 -- Quim Gil Engineering Community Manager @ Wikimedia Foundation http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Qgil _______________________________________________ Design mailing list Design(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design

Tomasz Finc

26 Aug 26 Aug

11:41 p.m.

Any it's really interesting to see a chrome extension for a permanent .m in the store https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/m-wiki/ibnmikddaopgfbbngcgcfmanjf… --tomasz On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 4:30 PM, Steven Walling <swalling(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:

...

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participants (6)

Derk-Jan Hartman
Jon Robson
Quim Gil
Sarah
Steven Walling
Tomasz Finc