), is everything self-contained
in the EventLogging extension or are there external parts involved in the
current pipeline sending events to the DB in production that I need to be
aware of?
On Fri, Jan 9, 2015 at 8:40 AM, Gilles Dubuc <gilles(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:
I think Gilles and Erik want to calculate page
views for GLAM mainly
(although there are some other good reasons too)
-- sampling would probably
be ok but we'd miss the long tail of views.
That's correct. We're looking to compile media view counts as accurate as
the ones we have for article views at the moment. Sampling would be fine to
identify the X most viewed media across a wiki, but it definitely wouldn't
help small GLAMs who want to get that information about their own
collection, if their media happen to be "low traffic" in the grand scheme
of things. I think that the latter is the main use case for doing this,
which is why I'm looking for a solution that wouldn't involve sampling.
Compiling the top list has entertainment value, letting GLAM contributors
get accurate statistics about their content improves the chances that they
will keep contributing more. I think that's more valuable than the
entertainment factor of the top list.
On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 8:02 PM, Toby Negrin <tnegrin(a)wikimedia.org>
wrote:
> I think Gilles and Erik want to calculate page views for GLAM mainly
(although there are some other good reasons too)
-- sampling would probably
be ok but we'd miss the long tail of views.
> On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 10:56 AM, Nuria Ruiz <nuria(a)wikimedia.org>
wrote:
>
>> I see. My main point was that -regardless of collection method- we
>> might not need every single data point to calculate uniques.
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 10:38 AM, Toby Negrin <tnegrin(a)wikimedia.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yes -- we disabled it because there wasn't a use case. We have one now
>>> :)
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 10:32 AM, Nuria Ruiz <nuria(a)wikimedia.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> > I believe there is already an EL-Kafka pipeline and this would
>>>> make it easy to integrate page views with our regular processing.
>>>>
>>>> Note that the pipeline was disabled 6 months ago and thus my comment
>>>> "in the near term"
>>>>
>>>>
https://github.com/wikimedia/operations-puppet/commit/f85b1dbcd61bbb58684ff…
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 9:39 AM, Toby Negrin
<tnegrin(a)wikimedia.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I'd also like us to consider routing this dataset to hadoop. I
>>>>> believe there is already an EL-Kafka pipeline and this would make it
easy
>>>>> to integrate page views with our regular processing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Gilles -- are mobile page views included in your stream?
>>>>>
>>>>> -Toby
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 9:27 AM, Nuria Ruiz
<nuria(a)wikimedia.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> >Great, then I guess it's a matter of only making the data
go to
>>>>>> files and not to DB for the particular schema we'll create.
Does >that
>>>>>> sound like something feasible? How much work would be required to
set it up?
>>>>>> I do not think this is feasible on the near term w/o changes in
our
>>>>>> end. I also am not sure it is really needed. You are concern
about sending
>>>>>> stuff to db due to "volume", correct? I do not
understand why logging every
>>>>>> single data point would be needed. Maybe you can explain that
with a bit
>>>>>> more detail for us to grasp the use case?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If it is a matter of identifying distinct requests that can be
done
>>>>>> having sampled your dataset if it is large enough, we can help
with that
>>>>>> and leila just put together some docs on this regard, while this
is for
>>>>>> hive queries principles can apply elsewhere:
>>>>>>
https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Analytics/Cluster/Hive/Counting_uniques
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 6:42 AM, Gilles Dubuc
<gilles(a)wikimedia.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Right -- couldn't we just tag the URL?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The event of the user actually viewing the image is
completely
>>>>>>> disconnected from the URL hit in Media Viewer, which is why
we need EL and
>>>>>>> can't rely on existing server logs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Eventlogging data currently does go to files, as well as
to the
>>>>>>>> DB.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Great, then I guess it's a matter of only making the data
go to
>>>>>>> files and not to DB for the particular schema we'll
create. Does that sound
>>>>>>> like something feasible? How much work would be required to
set it up?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 7:45 PM, Andrew Otto
<aotto(a)wikimedia.org>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Eventlogging data currently does go to files, as well as
to the
>>>>>>>> DB. Check it out on stat1003 at
/srv/eventlogging/archive.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you need something with higher throughput then
eventlogging
>>>>>>>> itself supports…then let’s talk :D
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Ao
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2015, at 13:28, Erik Zachte
<ezachte(a)wikimedia.org>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You mean attach an X-analytics parameter, for extra
images beyond
>>>>>>>> the one the user initially requested.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But then we would undercount, basically missing all image
views
>>>>>>>> from clicking right arrow in image viewer.
>>>>>>>> I'm not sure how much we would miss then.
>>>>>>>> iirc Gilles said this browsing feature was used quite a
long, but
>>>>>>>> I'm not sure.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *From:* analytics-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org [
>>>>>>>> mailto:analytics-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org
>>>>>>>> <analytics-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org>] *On Behalf
Of *Toby
>>>>>>>> Negrin
>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 06, 2015 19:16
>>>>>>>> *To:* A mailing list for the Analytics Team at WMF and
everybody
>>>>>>>> who has an interest in Wikipedia and analytics.
>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Analytics] Making EventLogging output to
a log
>>>>>>>> file instead of the DB
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Right -- couldn't we just tag the URL?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 10:10 AM, Erik Zachte <
>>>>>>>> ezachte(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just to clarify, this is about prefetched images which
have not
>>>>>>>> been shown to the public.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> They were sent to the browser ahead of a possible request
to
>>>>>>>> speed things up but in many cases never actually
requested.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Media_file_request_coun…
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - Erik
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *From:* analytics-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:
>>>>>>>> analytics-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org] *On Behalf Of
*Toby Negrin
>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 06, 2015 18:49
>>>>>>>> *To:* A mailing list for the Analytics Team at WMF and
everybody
>>>>>>>> who has an interest in Wikipedia and analytics.
>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Analytics] Making EventLogging output to
a log
>>>>>>>> file instead of the DB
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Gilles -- why won't the page view logs work by
themselves for
>>>>>>>> this purpose? EL can be configured to write into Hadoop
which is probably
>>>>>>>> the best way to get the throughput you need but it seems
overcomplicated.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Toby
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 9:41 AM, Gilles Dubuc <
>>>>>>>> gilles(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This depends on [1] so we're not going to need that
immediately,
>>>>>>>> but in order to help Erik Zachte with his RfC [2] to
track unique media
>>>>>>>> views in Media Viewer, I'm going to need to use
something almost exactly
>>>>>>>> like EventLogging. The main difference being that it
should skip writing to
>>>>>>>> the database and write to a log file instead.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That's because we'll be recording around 20-25M
image views per
>>>>>>>> day, which would needlessly overload EventLogging for
little purpose since
>>>>>>>> the data will be used for offline stats generation and
doesn't need to be
>>>>>>>> made available in a relational database. Of course if
storage space and
>>>>>>>> EventLogging capacity were no object, we could just use
EL and keep the
>>>>>>>> ever-growing table forever, but I have the impression
that we want to be
>>>>>>>> reasonable here and only write to a log, since that's
what Erik needs.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So here's the question: for a specific schema, can
EventLogging
>>>>>>>> work the way it does but only record hits to a log file
(maybe it already
>>>>>>>> does that before hitting the DB?) and not write to the
DB? If not, how
>>>>>>>> difficult would it be to make EL capable of doing that?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> [1]
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T44815
>>>>>>>> [2]
>>>>>>>>
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Media_file_request_coun…
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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